Do deterrents deter?

[joe-90]

All crims are lazy - the thought of being forced to march 14 hours a day for years would be a good deterrent.

 

[masona]

I'm against death penatly

With no exception?

A few years ago I was for the death penalty but now against it whatsoever. It's was BAS on here thats changed my mind, I see if I can find the old topic regarding this

Found it but very long winded, some off-topic including me!

5 yrs ago!

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39957&start=0

I know money shouldn't be the issues but according to the info, the death penalty is much more expensive than life in prison

 

[RedHerring2]

I'm not sure that it's the penalty that might deter offenders, more like the risk of being caught. Didn't Ken Clarke make a similar comment?

 

[joinerjohn]

I know money shouldn't be the issues but according to the info, the death penalty is much more expensive than life in prison

I fail to see how £40 worth of drugs, or £20 worth of rope is more expensive than keeping someone at an average cost of £20000+ per year for 20 yrs (at present costs)( couldn't be a**d to read all of the link)
Death penalty? If they want someone to offer to pull the handle for the long drop with a short rope, I'll do it for the cost of the fuel to get me wherever.
Better still, let members of the public bid for the opportunity of pulling the handle. I'm sure there would be plenty of takers.
Cost of a funeral? Should of course be met by the family of the murderer. If he/she has no family then a simple hole in the prison yard will suffice. Coffins could be knocked up in the prison workshops (what a way for some con to earn their NVQ ehh) Burial party made up of con's too (nice bit of hard labour for them).
A win, win situation TBQH.

 

[masona]

I know money shouldn't be the issues but according to the info, the death penalty is much more expensive than life in prison

I fail to see how £40 worth of drugs, or £20 worth of rope is more expensive than keeping someone at an average cost of £20000+ per year for 20 yrs (at present costs)

Here's one of the link > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2955269.../t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.Tvn7QzXUOSo

Death penalty? If they want someone to offer to pull the handle for the long drop with a short rope, I'll do it for the cost of the fuel to get me wherever.
Better still, let members of the public bid for the opportunity of pulling the handle. I'm sure there would be plenty of takers.

If you or the takers on your behalf for the death penalty then you or the takers are no difference to being a murderer. The death penalty is uncivilised

 

[joinerjohn]

Ahh probably in the US it's costly to execute as there are almost limitless appeals, usually based on legal issues (enough to make some attorneys over there, extremely rich)
Over here in the UK, it wouldn't work out prohibitively expensive. (far fewer courts to appeal to).
As for the death penalty being uncivilised,, surely someone who plans and commits murder in the first instance, has shown just exactly that. They are themselves uncivilised. I'm sure that had the death penalty been in force in this country, there are lots of people who wouldn't have been kept in the lap of luxury, at the taxpayers expense for so long. Ian Brady, Myra Hindley, Dennis Neilson (the black panther), Ian Huntley , Peter Sutcliffe. amongst many others.

 

[RedHerring2]

Capital punishment will never be re-introduced becaue we are signatories to the ECHR.
Any attempt to pass a capital punishment would be overturned by that ECHR.

 

[masona]

As for the death penalty being uncivilised,, surely someone who plans and commits murder in the first instance, has shown just exactly that. They are themselves uncivilised.

Yes but doesn't mean you got to be uncivilised because of it.

I wouldn't say prison is the life of luxury, not much of a life is it? IMO it's no freedom of doing what you want to do outside prison.

 

[joinerjohn]

But, masona, they have the freedom to do whatever they want in prison. Should they decide to study for an open university degree, then they can do that free of charge (we pick up the tab) But if we on the outside want to do the same, we have to pay for the privilege.
If they just want to do sweet FA, then that's they're choice. How many of us are free to not get up in the morning and not go to work? (how many of us would do that?)
Just because we had the death penalty at one time, were we any less civilised.? Do you think we were less civilised 50 yrs ago than we are now?

 

[ellal]

I wonder what those who hanker after the ultimate penalty would think if they or one of their own was subject to a miscarriage of justice?

Given we have a corrupt police/legal/reporting system there is no such thing as 100% guaranteed proof!

 

[Norcon]

Yes the innocent can go to jail and the guilty free.
Just look at foxy noxy.

 

[joinerjohn]

I wonder what those who hanker after the ultimate penalty would think if they or one of their own was subject to a miscarriage of justice?

Given we have a corrupt police/legal/reporting system there is no such thing as 100% guaranteed proof!

Ahh the eternal argument, "I'm innocent", even when cctv and forensic evidence show someone clearly to be the perp, they still hang on to that one. No doubt someone is now going to trot out a list of people who actually were innocent, but percentage wise, what proportion of innocent people are actually in prison? (as opposed to people who claim their innocence) Or is this an unknown quantity?

 

[enyam]

All crims are lazy .

I think some work hard to get back in Joe.

 

[masona]

But, masona, they have the freedom to do whatever they want in prison. Should they decide to study for an open university degree, then they can do that free of charge (we pick up the tab) But if we on the outside want to do the same, we have to pay for the privilege.

Then go to jail However painful it is, I think it's important to re-educate from right & wrong and give then something to focus on for the correct behaviour if they ever release from prison, although it's hard to do but can only keep trying.

Do you think we were less civilised 50 yrs ago than we are now?

Tough one to answer and how far back, I can only say this as I'm here today, I think we are more civilised as with the society changes in technologically with better health and higher standard of living condition etc.

 

[joinerjohn]

masona, I respect your belief that the death penalty shouldn't be brought back, but I can see several advantages to it being re-introduced. Least of all the absolutely zero chance of re-offending.


For those who harp on and on about Human Rights, just remember that no one gave a thought to the same Human Rights, victims of crime had before becoming victims. It's this facet of the whole HR thing that urgently needs addressing, but that's a whole new debate.