Expanded ULEZ

[motorbiking]

What about those cars that don't need an mot?

New cars already pay an uplifted road tax.
40 year old cars, probably represent <2% of the stock.

 

[IT Minion]

Rise in racist abuse against Sadiq Khan linked to London clean air zone expansion

Study by Greater London authority finds mayor has received over 300,000 pieces of racist abuse since being elected

www.theguardian.com

An interesting effect, is the ULEZ expansion making people more racist, or is it just annoying enough people that the abusive racist minority are popping up more. Or are racists more likely to hate the ULEZ?

 

[IT Minion]

(a thinly veiled racist insult)

Always nice to have someone else to add to the ignore list.

 

[motorbiking]

Who defines the abuse as racist? The Guardian?

He is getting terrible press and with his attack on people with older vehicles, you can see why people are getting angry. What I find odd, is he is more popular than Kier Starmer, who basically spends his life trying not to offend anyone.

When you dig a bit deeper, this looks very much like typical left wing news distraction.

 

[JohnD]

Who defines the abuse as racist? The Guardian?

The link says it was a study by the Greater London Authority.

Glad to help.

Sorry you can't read.

 

[IT Minion]

Who defines the abuse as racist? The Guardian?

He is getting terrible press and with his attack on people with older vehicles, you can see why people are getting angry. What I find odd, is he is more popular than Kier Starmer, who basically spends his life trying not to offend anyone.

When you dig a bit deeper, this looks very much like typical left wing news distraction.

Worse than that, London Government defined the terms. But we've seen in this thread that there is real racist abuse.

 

[JohnD]

People should have been given a decades notice to at least give them a fighting chance to prepare whether from a personal and/or business perspective. And the charge should have been lower.

I also expect, depending on the cost to implement, we'll see these schemes rolled out to smaller towns in years to come.

A decade's notice? See this from 2015. And it was not "new" then, for anyone paying attention.

People are talking about this as if it was an unexpected surprise, but it isn't

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b051rjpz

"The UK has been breaching legal limits for nitrogen dioxide since 2010 in 16 different cities and regions. The judgment forces the next government to draw up new air quality plans - for submission to the EU - by the end of the year. "

Last year, the mayor of Paris called for diesel cars to be banned from the city by 2020

"Several European nations are currently in breach of EU clean air laws. The EU’s NO2 limit was exceeded at 301 sites in 2012, including seven in London. The concentration on Marylebone Road was more than double the limit.

Districts in Athens, Berlin, Brussels, Madrid, Paris, and Rome are also exceeded the ceiling.


Not just carbon: Key pollutants for human health
&#9726; Particulate matter (PM): Can cause or aggravate cardiovascular and lung diseases, heart attacks and arrhythmias. Can cause cancer. May lead to atherosclerosis, adverse birth outcomes and childhood respiratory disease. The outcome can be premature death.
&#9726; Ozone (O3): Can decrease lung function and aggravate asthma and other lung diseases. Can also lead to premature death.
&#9726; Nitrogen oxides (NO2): Exposure to NO2 is associated with increased deaths from heart and lung disease, and respiratory illness.
&#9726; Polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), in particular benzo a-pyrene (BaP): Carcinogenic.


Politicians are now scurrying to persuade the courts that they are obeying an EU demand to clean up the air as soon as possible.

The Paris mayor said at the weekend that she wanted the city to become ‘semi-pedestrianised’, with a ban on diesel cars in the city centre and some neighbourhoods given entirely to residents’ cars, delivery vehicles and emergency vehicles.

"I want diesel cars out of Paris by 2020," she said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152

I worked in Euston about 1996. The Euston Underpass (with diesel taxis and buses) was notorious, and very unhealthy for anyone with asthma or a chest complaint. Was that Marylebone Road?

 

[motorbiking]

I worked in an office in 1988 where everyone smoked at their desk - it is completely irrelevant to this debate.

Today's cars are nowhere near in the same league as 1996. As a reminder pretty much any diesel vehicle registered before Sep 2015 is being targeted for this tax.

Lets not confuse a tax to plug the mayors financial deficit with something that will actually improve air quality.

 

[JohnD]

Today's cars are nowhere near in the same league as 1996.

You mean all the old cars have been taken off the road? If all the cars and vans are now to 2008 standard, that must have contributed to the improvement.

 

[motorbiking]

According to the Mayor - 90.5% are to the Euro 6 2015 standard. Of course we know how he fiddled the numbers. Councils have learned that much more revenue can be made from fining drivers, than getting them to pay and they actively design their schemes to allow people to miss paying, so they can trigger a fine. Last year, there were more unpaid fines than payments.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

A decade's notice? See this from 2015. And it was not "new" then, for anyone paying attention.

I worked in Euston about 1996. The Euston Underpass (with diesel taxis and buses) was notorious, and very unhealthy for anyone with asthma or a chest complaint. Was that Marylebone Road?

I think the London ULEZ was announced around 2015 with a 2019/20 implementation date.

 

[motorbiking]

That was the original zone, not the expansion. The argument being proposed is the expansion is just a tweak to the original plan, the argument against is that it increases the area by a factor of 3x and goes in to areas where there is no network of extremely good public transport.

my opinion is that since new cars are ever improving due to standards and there is a rapid shift to electric, due to deadlines, this is a rollout that taxes people before the opportunity evaporates. Had TFL waited another 2-3 years the business case would have not been there at all.

 

[JohnD]

my opinion

Or, on the other hand,

Air pollution causes harm at all stages of life - report

The study found exposure to certain particles can lead to miscarriages and stunt children's growth.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The review found air pollution harmed foetal development during pregnancy and could cause low birth weight and miscarriages, as well as a low sperm count in men.

It also found air pollution could stunt lung growth in children, cause asthma, and affect blood pressure, cognitive abilities and mental health.

Researchers identified particulate matter (PM2.5) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2) - both of which come from vehicle exhausts - as particularly harmful.

There was no evidence to identify a threshold where PM2.5 did no harm, and even those living in the least polluted suburbs of London were affected, they said."

 

[motorbiking]

The argument that air pollution causes harm is common ground. Arguing that imposing a £12.50 charge where apparently 90.5% of vehicles already comply is an entirely different proposal. It's never about one dimension, you have to look at the broad impact. There are many studies arguing it hasn't made much difference and that the economic impact had significant effect.

You have to consider how many polluting vehicles have been replaced, the environmental cost of that early replacement or was it simply a case of the car, the journey etc. went elsewhere.

The disappointing thing is there was never any serious look at simplifying retrofitting and certification. A lot of Euro 5 vehicles meet Euro 6 requirements but nobody has made it easy for them to be recorded as compliant.

 

[Notch7]

euro 4 Jan 1st 2006
euro 5 Jan 1st 2011
euro 6 Sept 1st 2015

I dont like changing cars and mine is euro 4