Generator advice needed - thinking of buying one for a small bungalow

Joined
11 Sep 2007
Messages
836
Reaction score
6
Country
United Kingdom
After the latest storm I've endured yet another lengthy power cut - this is the final straw, I'd now like to invest in a generator.

I only have a small three bedroom bungalow and am looking to mainly power the essentials - chest freezer, fridge, oil boiler and lights. Some additional 'niceties' would be the ability to run my PC, perhaps even use the TV. Oh yes, and boil a kettle (although that can be avoiding by heating water on my gas hob).

After doing some research I'm still in the dark as to the best way to approach this, not only regarding the capacity of generator to use but also how best to store it -do I, for example, get one that's mounted on a 'trolley' and just wheel it out and plug it into a generator-specific outlet as required?

Can all electricians install the relevant power connection point?

Etc. Maybe there are some good web sites that people here would recommend?

Also, are generators gas guzzlers and expensive to run?
 
Sponsored Links
I know you can get a mains gas powered generator in the garage that will link to house electrics. You need to be able to cut the power to the house or you could push electric out to street or neighbours potentially electrocuting someone.
You will need an electrician for this installation.

I've also known people use an inverter connected to the car which will give you power. That's the easiest and cheapest way but may not be enough power for you what want .
 
Having a 32 amp socket, and a consumer unit running the essentials which plugs into the socket, which can be unplugged and plugged into a generator instead is an easy way to ensure both the generator and the DNO supply can't be used together, however this arrangement is clearly not automated. You need to manually unplug and plug in. But it is simple.

But to have an automated system is more complex, my system uses a 5 kW inverter and two 3.2 kWh batteries, and solar panels, my freezers and oil fired central heating are the only items battery backed, and how long they will run for is a matter of luck, they stop discharging when down to 10%, so I do have 640 Watt/hours, but could be 10 times that depending on the time of day when I get a power cut. Summer I may be able to go for days, with the solar recharging the batteries. But winter likely only a couple of hours.

But the batteries together with the inverter and smart meter have reduced my electric bill in winter by half, November last year my bill as around the £120 and this November around £60 the battery back-up is an added feature of the solar panels, it was not done only for battery back-up. In November last year, we had the solar panels and battery, but not the smart meter and the option of off-peak power.

So the bill was around £160 a month, so the solar saves us £40 a month, and the batteries £60 a month. But it is the same inverter that connects the solar panels and battery, each battery can store 3.2 kWh and I can have up to four batteries, I started with one battery, but it rarely lasted until off-peak started, so got a second one, and now winter it does run out before end of peak power most days, but it lasts until after 9 pm most days, and since they have a limited life, not really worth having more.

What would be a good idea as far as emergency power goes would be a 250 volt DC generator which could be run when there is no solar.
 
I have the same issues as you.
I have a 3500 kva generator, Briggs and Stratton powered, which means it can deliver 3000W continuous.
All I do is to run an extension lead from the genny through a window, so I can plug the oil boiler into - which has a normal 13A plug. So, I have heat - most important.
There is plenty of juice left for a kettle and some trailing lamps, it will run the microwave and a toaster, but not at the same time.
I don’t have it connected into any of the house circuits for obvious reasons.
See what Machine Mart have to offer.....Honda engines are quietest but most expensive.
My genny is sometimes unused for 12 months or more so I use Aspen fuel that lasts 5 years.....if the machine is working for many hours at a time then ordinary petrol is just fine.
John
 
Sponsored Links
Storing petrol, a generator, then running cables each time, transferring plugs etc., - would make it just far too much effort, when compared to just sitting out a very rare power cut. We have a gas hob, gas fire, candles and torches.

Longer, and we could just adjourn into the caravan, just in the drive, which is bottled gas heated, and runs on it's own 12v battery.
 
my thoughts
do loads off research
the quoted run time will often be based on a low perhaps 10% capacity
noise may be a big factor, especially iff you have close neighbours stuck with silence in their houses
a freezer unopened will be fine for perhaps 18-30 hrs a fridge can be filled with bags off frozen veg as freezer packs and most will be fine re-frozen within a day or eaten within the week or recycled IFF your worried about safety if eaten at the cost off a few pounds in wasted vegetables but saved other fridge contents
do not go for high amps loads off a generator use gas no kettles micros/cookers large grills[sub 1000w] then a say 1500-1800w will cover anything with careful planning
micros tend to be around 60-120% more than the rated output so a 750w may be perhaps 1200-2000w dependent on function
 
Last edited:
iff you have power tool batteries use spare capacity to charge them and use or invest in usb take offs to charge things like mobiles or even led light strips from the tool batteries
 
I'm still in the dark
That's a long power cut :)


just wheel it out and plug it into a generator-specific outlet as required?
It's what I do, first turning off any high power circuits in the house. Note, technically your generator specific outlet would be an inlet and it should be switched so that you're either connected to grid power or generator but not both. If you're thinking to have a solar install, seek an inverter that will let you run in off grid mode- most inverters sense grid presence and shut down if it goes away to prevent becoming a local power station, supplying the neighbours and posing a risk to people working on the network

I might also recommend, if you're using a petrol generator, that when time comes to shut it down, you turn the fuel tap to off and let it run til it conks out to drain the carburettor
 
Storm Arwen left us without power for four days.
My generator kept us warm, enabled us to cook (I have other LPG standby kit though) and looked after my fridge and freezer.
It's maybe been used twice since then but who cares......starts first pull.
John :)
 
Storm Arwen left us without power for four days.
My generator kept us warm, enabled us to cook (I have other LPG standby kit though) and looked after my fridge and freezer.
It's maybe been used twice since then but who cares......starts first pull.
John :)

Thanks - out of interest how much fuel did it consume per hour of use?
 
That's a long power cut :)



It's what I do, first turning off any high power circuits in the house. Note, technically your generator specific outlet would be an inlet and it should be switched so that you're either connected to grid power or generator but not both. If you're thinking to have a solar install, seek an inverter that will let you run in off grid mode- most inverters sense grid presence and shut down if it goes away to prevent becoming a local power station, supplying the neighbours and posing a risk to people working on the network

I might also recommend, if you're using a petrol generator, that when time comes to shut it down, you turn the fuel tap to off and let it run til it conks out to drain the carburettor

What make/model do you have?

Also (just showing my generator ignorance here) does it need to be run inside a shed, etc (with a suitable exhaust outlet of course) or can it be run outside in the rain, presumably with a suitable cover?

Thanks for your advice (and the same applies to everyone else who has helped so far).
 
Most of the questions can be answered with it depends:-
So an inverter generator is normally petrol and will vary in speed depending on the load, so it will use less fuel when on low revs, and it will also produce less noise, often the inverter input can be shared so you can use two generators in tandem, they tend to be lighter, and I have seen many used by caravans just sitting outside their caravan.

If not an inverter generator, the speed is fixed, but since the speed is fixed, diesel works quite well, they make in general more noise, heavier, better for a continuous load, but not so good with a varying load. The law changed this year, so now need to use DERV not red diesel, so the big advantage is now lost.

There are TVO generators (tractor vaporising oil, better known as 28 sec gas oil) they start on petrol then switch over, liked by people with oil fired central heating, don't know how the law change affects them?

There is also the Wispergen really more for yachts, uses a Sterling engine (external combustion) as one would expect with the name, very little running noise. There are also some units used with caravans, not sure how they work, think no moving parts, but not looked into them.

The big question is how long will they last, I would think there is an option to use a generator to charge my batteries, I have not really looked into it, if I had a power cut now, battery at 86% charged, it could last for weeks, depending on the sun, as only central heating and freezers run off the battery back up, but by 9 pm will have reached a point where it may not even last the night.

I have torches for light, and a portable gas ring for cooking, from when we used to camp, and an open grate which has a board covering it, but could be soon opened up, but living in the countryside, we have three freezers, and that would be a large loss if they defrost. The chest freezer will likely last 24 hours or more without power, but the upright freezers, all down to when the last defrost cycle ran. If it was due to run just after the power cut, then likely will last at least 18 hours, but if the defrost cycle has just completed, then food in the top has likely an hour at the most, food further down likely OK, but until power returns one has no idea what the temperature is inside the freezer. Mine will display the temperature inside when the power is returned until I open the freezer door, so at least I know if it has warmed up too much.

Opening the chest freezer lid during a power cut not too bad, but an upright no way should you open the door. But the chest freezer has a single phase motor and a large inrush on start up, the upright freezers have a three-phase motor and an inverter drive, so no massive load on start, but the defrost heater is on mine 1.2 kW, so any generator must be able to supply the start amps or the defrost heater, there is no option to disable the defrost heater.

So we need around a 3 kW generator for the freezers, but on saying that, on the Falklands the 1.5 kW diesel generator was popular, and it did run their chest freezers, no one on the Falklands would get an upright freezer. I have put energy monitors on the freezer, but not convinced it will show the peak start amps, only way is to try it. Some generators with an overload will shut themselves down, other will burn themselves out, it depends on how they are controlled, on the Falklands we found if we started the shears sharping disc first, the rotating mass of the disc would allow the shears to start with the 1.5 kW generator, but they would not start if the disc not running, it needed the 12 kVA to be started.

All well and good when you know what to do, not so good when you don't. I have considered an inverter generator, it would have been handy when doing gardening so no need for extension leads for hedge trimmer etc, but moved to battery powered garden tools instead.
 
As I said, a 32 amp socket on the main consumer unit, and a sub consumer unit supplying essential services, plugger into that socket, so high-powered items like the shower and the cooker are not on the essential services consumer unit, and with a power failure you unplug from main consumer unit and plug into generator instead thus ensuring you can't combine the DNO supply and emergency supply, and also allows you to use any generator with a 32 amp outlet. Could of course go for a 16 amp plus and socket. Plus makes the connection of neutral and earth easy, and connecting the earth rod easy.

When my solar inverter detects the loss of DNO supply, it connects the neutral to the earth, and I have an earth rod permanently connected, I found the earth to neutral connection a problem in the past, some generators connect it within the generators, but not all, and also found where earth connected to 55 volts rather than the neutral, well then not really a neutral but line 2, so we had a 55 - 0 - 175 volts supply, and no overload protection on the 55 volt output.

The generator was 110/230 volt, actually a Honda engine, so had not expected to find a problem, I had to remove the 230 volt option and have it 55 - 0 - 55 volt only.

At least they had not used the lead with two plugs method, often called a widow maker, but it is so easy to make errors when trying to set up an emergency supply, I do wonder what my earth electrode will do with a loss of PEN? And to my mind, the cover over the rod is nowhere near big enough, I would be giving it a wide berth in a power cut, just in case.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top