And why should the influence it has not be that it's protected by a 10A fuse externally as BS7671 itself requires if that's what the manufacturer says?
Heating an airing cupboard
- Thread starter Lofty Bob
- Start date
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Because the manufacturer has no right to require it. BS 7671 does not give manufacturers the right to superimpose their requirements onto BS 7671.
Better make sure that the manufacturer realizes he needs to make a Transmogrifier which can operate on anything from 1V to 1000V and anything from DC to well up into the RF range of AC then. We can't have him trying to "superimpose" his requirement that it be connected to a source of 240V @ 50 Hz on BS7671, can we?
Really, your argument is ridiculous. Manufacturers specify how equipment must be installed for proper operation and safety all the time - "That's how it works."
Really, your argument is ridiculous. Manufacturers specify how equipment must be installed for proper operation and safety all the time - "That's how it works."
Actually, ban-all-sheds is correct - circuit protection is to protect the cables and not the appliance. This is a fact.
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It's not to protect the appliance. It is to protect the circuit, not just the cables.
All protective devices rely to some extent on the fault current limitation provided by upstream devices.
All protective devices rely to some extent on the fault current limitation provided by upstream devices.
The appliance is part of the circuit.
Not necessarily. If hard-wired I suppose it is.
You don't think it becomes part of the circuit when plugged in to a socket then?
Ask yourself where the circuit protective device would be then.
What type of plug - BS1363, unfused BS546.... ?
Yes, one of those. Ask yourself two questions if you like!
In the case of an unfused BS546 plug, then obviously the fuse/MCB back at the distribution panel will be providing protection to the whole circuit, including the appliance, if the latter doesn't incorporate its own fuse (as many don't). BS1363 changed that in Britain and other places using it, but in the rest of the world it's still normally the case.
I just don't see what B-A-S is going on about. The manufacturer of some appliance specifies that it should be fed through a fuse not to exceed 10 amps, so in the case of using a BS1363 plug you put a 10A or lower BS1362 fuse in the plug. If you're wiring up via an FCU on that redundant 30A circuit, you put a 10A or lower fuse in the FCU. If you want to hardwire it without using an FCU, so that the MCB at the origin of the circuit serves the protective purpose for the whole lot, then you need a 10A max. fuse or MCB there.
I don't see how that is "superimposing" the manufacturer's requirements on BS7671 any more than saying that the device needs to be connected to a supply of 240V @ 50Hz, or that because it's rated at 1200W it needs to be connected to a circuit capable of safely supplying a minimum current of approx. 5A.
I just don't see what B-A-S is going on about. The manufacturer of some appliance specifies that it should be fed through a fuse not to exceed 10 amps, so in the case of using a BS1363 plug you put a 10A or lower BS1362 fuse in the plug. If you're wiring up via an FCU on that redundant 30A circuit, you put a 10A or lower fuse in the FCU. If you want to hardwire it without using an FCU, so that the MCB at the origin of the circuit serves the protective purpose for the whole lot, then you need a 10A max. fuse or MCB there.
I don't see how that is "superimposing" the manufacturer's requirements on BS7671 any more than saying that the device needs to be connected to a supply of 240V @ 50Hz, or that because it's rated at 1200W it needs to be connected to a circuit capable of safely supplying a minimum current of approx. 5A.
Should I start another poll, and see how many people think that that is a good and relevant observation, which clearly demonstrates the fallacy of my position, and how many think it is a stupid one?
There are many things which they can rightly specify to ensure proper operation and safety. Insisting on a particular level of circuit protection because they CBA to design their equipment properly is not one of them.
Can you explain what that means? It presumably cannot be true as a generalisation, since ultimately there will the 'most upstream device', upstream of which there are no other devices!
Kind Regards, John
Yes you do.
It's just something else which you refuse to accept.
Not a specification he is entitled to make. If he has made something whose internals need the protection of a 10A fuse then he must put that fuse in the internals.
The purpose of the fuse in a BS 1363 plug is to protect the flex, not the appliance.
Ib ≤ In ≤ Iz
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