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japanese may withdraw from Britain altogether or reduce the manufacturing to a very small scale for British market, and invest more heavily in European countries like Hungry, Romania, Greece, etc etc,
Labour in those countries is cheaper than here, so why do those foreign investors manufacture in Britian at all? If they just wanted a country in the EU -any country- why pick the one that isn't on the mainland?

we also have too many red tapes as well which makes Britain less attractive to foreign investment.
And yet you seem to be implying our economy is currently propped up by foreign investors. So which is it?
 
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why pick the one that isn't on the mainland?
Because it's comfortable for the bosses. They mostly speak English, as do their wives (husbands in a few cases) and children even though they may be less educated. They can send their children to good schools, where they are unlikely to be kidnapped, and have access to good shops and medical care with safe pharmaceuticals. If they are gangsters they could (and still can) buy billionaire homes, no questions asked, and park money without paying tax, unless they want to and do it voluntarily. The notorious tax-dodging billionaire boss of the Daily Mail doesn't choose to.

Their factory workers are not important, so they can be in a country which has a well-trained and educated workforce and a society which is tolerably free from corruption.

You may have noticed that multinationals hate setting up shop in Russia, except, to a small extent, where it is unavoidable. This is not due to prejudice or sanctions. Just read the points above.
 
This is entirely my own opinion, not based on any statistics, Multinational chose Britain for many good reasons, these are availability of skilled and trained labour, graduates, English speaking, along with some other European languages, well established infra structure, ports both for shipping and air cargo, attractive corporate tax system, but if these Multinationals cannot export their product or the demand falls due to us leaving Europe, or europeans boycott our products and we do the same to theirs, M.N. will then consider leaving our shores and operate from mainland Europe, where they might be pleasantly surprised that they have equally well organised infra structure, and lesser red tape like minimum wage etc, health & safety rules, much more , lesser red tape than out own, cheaper labour in some European countries like Bulgaria, Romania, vast opportunities to develop these European countries, alternative holiday destinations, as the rest of the world like Egypt, Tunisia, Bali, and other resorts are plagued by terrorism, opportunities to get into holidays and travel industry, hospitality weekend breaks and our freedom to settle anywhere in some less dense natural beauty spots of huge Europe. The opportunities are endless, A stronger and expanding Europe means many many more opportunities for all, our own highly skilled personnel may be hired by Europeans.

Leaving europe may not suit us all, our highly skilled research & development industry may not have enough opportunities at home, or limited, may encourage such people to migrate elsewhere and leave Britain, creating vacuum, which will only meran we will have to hire more skilled migrant workers from other countries.

These are my opinions, not based on statistics, but many many Brits are leaving Britain and going over to Australia, America for even greater opportunities, whilst staying in Europe gives us many more options with less hassle, terrorism is everywhere, it effects every nation, leaving Europe does not mean we will be any more safer, I doubt if Britain would have been able to complete 2012 Olympics if it were not for the fact that largest work force was from Europe. Having competition is good for the consumers, that is why our population does not think twice if they should buy made in IUK goods at extortionate price or should they seek cheaper alternatives from China, companies after companies have been driven out of UK by our own consumers because we have a taste for cheaper goods made in China, we can't have our cake and eat it. we will have to give and take a little each way.

I prefer not to live in an enclosed isolated island cut off from rest of Europe and world and live a miserable life, right now I can just sit in my car, take my passport and drive off to France and pick up cheap cigarettes, a day outing as well as saving money. It gives me more choices. I could sell up my house in London for close to a million and make my own mansion with a swimming pool in Romania and live like a Lord. Still have enough change to deposit in a bank there to live off the higher rate of interest than our miser 0.5%!

I cannot fine one good reason to leave, oh and it is now a lot easier to find someone reliable and reasonable from Europe to get up on my roof to fix a leak than to hire our own dodgy people who like to rip our own older folks- need I say any more you only have to see Rip off Britain.
 
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Excellent post, Mike.

Just one point first - you could virtually do the same by substituting Devon or Cornwall (not to mention the North) for Romania.

Logically those in favour of exit, although probably not realising it, are advocating a return to the past (when Britain was NOT paradise) and their next step might be a return to guarding the borders of Wessex, Mercia etc. - it would be good not to be governed by those in that there Lundin - and then their own little area and self-sufficiency on their own in their gated community.
I suppose they don't really want to give up next-day delivery of goods from Europe although they may say they would put up with it.

When my Granddad was a lad a trip to the nearest town was almost an expedition.
Today the world has been shrunk by road and air travel, with migration both ways (which they ignore), and the internet (whether this is good or bad is irrelevant as it can't be stopped) but curtailing this is what the exitters are advocating.

As an aside, I don't really understand why someone who has emigrated from Britain to the US (PBC) is such a strong opponent of Britain's membership of the EU. That he has chosen to live in A country which is a successful federation of separate states and commonwealths would surely have shown such things to be favourable.

Anyway, heaven forbid we (the world) should all try to get along.

Of course, and I may have hinted at this before, nobody knows what my village would be like now if we had not joined the rest of the world.
 
Remember, also, many migrants from some of the poor European countries who come over, mainly to London, are now finding rents prohibitively high, much of their earnings are gone on high rents, higher cost of transport, since much of the development work is taking place in London, building are rocketing up, nearly every square mile there are housing and multistory apartments being build, a hell of a lot of development going on, demolishing some of the old unattractive buildings and newer ones being build, London is changing vastly, the pace is unbelievable, majority of the construction work is now (my guess +75%) is being carried out by Romanians, Polish, and a few others, without them this progress would come to a grinding halt, as our population grows, our needs will also grow, and that does mean we need to build more schools and hospitals, again a vast opportunity, the bigger the nation the bigger the need, so why cry out oh our schools are full, hospitals are packed to brink, of course that will be the case to a certain extent and then as our needs and demands grow, so will our schools and hospitals and economy grow.

Let me give you a hypothetical example:

let us say a Chocolate company manufactures 1 million bars of chocolate a year, it finds that suddenly it cannot cope with demand, what do they do, do they ask people to stop making babies because they can't meet demand, or do they say excellent, we have greater opportunity to expand, so not only do that company now opens another factory, and employs more people and starts producing even more chocolate and their turnover goes up, our unemployment drops, the company may even offer more variety of their products, if anyone thinks that our population should not grow are badly mistaken, population of earth is keep on going up, with it demand for goods and services will also grow, so that means expansion, more goods will need to be produced to cater for extra people, more everything of course, more resources, so it is for us to plan ahead and cater for this, we may have failed to see this, so now e are finding shortage of school places, hospitals stretched, we did not perhaps train enough doctors, so now we may have to hire more form Europe, so why not? This a natural phenomenon, that cannot be stopped for ever, you may delay it, but changes are inevitable, its no point saying we spend £340 millione each week and get back little, that is a load of tosh. We get so much more back in unseen areas. we have benefited from European migrants to a very great extent, of course there will be some who will also exploit our benefit system.

I will give you another real example of a Romanian guy who till now has not claimed a single penny, and has paid taxes, he had an accident when his ladder slipped, he fell from a height of 8 feet and broke a couple of ribs, he went to A&E and Xrays revealed he has broke a couple of ribs, a week stay in hospital, he was back on his feet climbing ladders and doing his work, someone else would have taken months off work and claimed health benefit, I actually told this guy that he could claim from the system but he said no i have a pride.

Most Local councils now have a strict overcrowding policy, where landlords cannot allow more people to live, so selective licensing was introduced, Newham being one of the first and this has effectively driven off those greedy bunch of landlords who were housing 4 to 5 migrants per room and earning anything like 2k PER WEEK FROM the plight of migrants, that exploitation has stopped and many migrants have found that since they can't find cheaper accommodation, their jobs won't leave them enough money to buy food after they have paid rents, and utility bills, car insurances, travel expenses, they simply go back, only those remain who have skills, and can earn decent wage to pat rents and cater for their families.

Another fact, Romania joined EU in 2007, but many Romanians had already come to Britain well before that, so did that stop them arriving on our shores before they became a full member? many I met told me they came over hidden in trucks! some even bought fake Italian passports and came over through ports as Italians!

we only need a good border control at our port like we have at airports, that all, to catch pests (terrorist) arriving hidden in lorries, and other migrants who are going to exploit our hospitality and mug people on streets, they should be promptly put behind bars and after serving sent back never to set foot on our soil again.

These polls should never have happened, but if majority decides to leave now then tough, I will have to go with the majority, but when Europeans heard how our population was getting tired of the Union's interference and endless regulations, we were threatening to leave, they realised that, and gave us a little more flexibility, so we had a weapon in our hand, now if we decide to stay, that weapon is lost, if we leave we don't need a weapon, *(weapon to bargain and seek special terms)
 
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I am a compulsive smoker, to me cheap cigarettes is far more important than leaving EU, I am in.

Unless our duty on cigarettes goes down to the level of European countries, then no problem I will toss a coin, heads for staying in, tails out
.............:eek: I just don't believe it..:eek:
 
if anyone thinks that our population should not grow are badly mistaken, population of earth is keep on going up, with it demand for goods and services will also grow, so that means expansion, more goods will need to be produced to cater for extra people, more everything of course, more resources, so it is for us to plan ahead and cater for this, we may have failed to see this,
Fly in the ointment there though Mike is that resources are finite , they cannot be expanded , increased or enlarged. The world is looking at resource depletion in many areas , convential oil peaked some time ago and we are running out of many things from phosphates to metals. Increasing the worlds population will only exgasberate these shortfalls , growth cannot be infinite , anyone who thinks it can are the ones who are badly mistaken. Here we are 7.3 billion and climbing
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
Getting back to this referendum , I've just had a conversation with an old lady in her seventies. She was attempting to convince her kids and grandkids to vote although they seem quite apathetic about it. Now the old lady seems to lean towards the out side but she did say that she felt as if she shouldn't really have a vote on this as frankly she would be voting for change that might very well not have any impact on her at all as she is getting towards the end of her time ( wonderfully morbid some people) or at best might affect her for a couple of years whereas the effects on the offspring would be felt for several decades.
 
if anyone thinks that our population should not grow are badly mistaken, population of earth is keep on going up, with it demand for goods and services will also grow, so that means expansion, more goods will need to be produced to cater for extra people, more everything of course, more resources, so it is for us to plan ahead and cater for this, we may have failed to see this,
Fly in the ointment there though Mike is that resources are finite , they cannot be expanded , increased or enlarged. The world is looking at resource depletion in many areas , convential oil peaked some time ago and we are running out of many things from phosphates to metals. Increasing the worlds population will only exgasberate these shortfalls , growth cannot be infinite , anyone who thinks it can are the ones who are badly mistaken. Here we are 7.3 billion and climbing
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
Getting back to this referendum , I've just had a conversation with an old lady in her seventies. She was attempting to convince her kids and grandkids to vote although they seem quite apathetic about it. Now the old lady seems to lean towards the out side but she did say that she felt as if she shouldn't really have a vote on this as frankly she would be voting for change that might very well not have any impact on her at all as she is getting towards the end of her time ( wonderfully morbid some people) or at best might affect her for a couple of years whereas the effects on the offspring would be felt for several decades.
I agree totally, but you and I cannot control people's urge to have unprotected sex, it is their irresponsibility to keep on making mote and more babies, I think we need to modify our democratic right to control and enforce on people that if they make more than say two babies, the third one gets no child benefit, and all upbringing expenses will be entirely down to parents including paying for their education and welfare, like in China one child policy, we could simply remove benefit and free education for parents who go past 2 children, sounds cruel, but that is what china did, which was probably too harsh.

Religions that encourage uncontrolled expansion of populations have a lot to answer for their agenda, and we should make it their responsibility to pay for schooling and welfare extra children and no benefit for after two children, of course we all carry a responsibility for our planet, those bent of breeding like rabbits. Bringing in similar legislation as in China is not an undemocratic, what if we were sailing in a boat and one of us starts to drill a hole, are we not going to stop him drilling a hole or are we going to allow him his democratic right to carry on drilling holes so that we all sink! I am not saying people can't have babies, but have two and if you have more you pay for the third yourself.

Comments regarding your last para, I agree perhaps we should exclude those from voting who are not going to benefit or see any changes that results from this referendum.

Europeans are our neighbours, we see each other as good friends, what happens when you don't get on with your neighbour, we all know, life can become miserable if your neighbour becomes unfriendly. WW1 & 2 we saw, it cost millions of lives for nothing. Indeed we have got to set certain limits, if we don't then our neighbours could be intruding too much on our lives and we on theirs, so we stay in europe and all countries sit together and modify some rules, and make exceptions. That is a way forward.

Have people studied deeper and long term implications of us leaving, if we remained, we already know the implications, so no need to worry about us joining, and some countries can't wait to join like Turkey. Must be something good about staying with EU ir Greece would have pulled out, yes I agree we need to sort lots of things that may be wrong with EU.

Leaving EU, can be disastrous for us all. That is my opinion. Vote as you wish.
 
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Must be something good about staying with EU
Google 'Stockholm Syndrome'; it's that process by which some captives form a bond with their captors, and don't want to leave the prison.
And there's me thinking we could leave if we wanted. :rolleyes:
Talk about daft arguments. Whatever next

It's not 'daft'; Cameron said we'd be 'safer' in the EU; and the world and his wife have all told us we'd be down the pan if we left, and we can't stand on our own feet without having our reigns held by Juncker. It's pathetic.
 
Multinational chose Britain for many good reasons, these are availability of skilled and trained labour, graduates, English speaking, along with some other European languages, well established infra structure, ports both for shipping and air cargo, attractive corporate tax system
Nothing to do with the EU then. If we leave, we would still have all those things (and the freedom to set lower corporate taxes if we felt like it...).

M.N. will then consider leaving our shores and operate from mainland Europe, where they might be pleasantly surprised that they have equally well organised infra structure, and lesser red tape, health & safety rules, cheaper labour in some European countries, vast opportunities to develop, alternative holiday destinations,
You've contradicted yourself. If that were true those companies wouldn't be here to start with! None of these things will change if we leave the EU.

Britain being in the EU is neither here nor there to those multinationals. If we exported a few thousand less cars to Germany, they'd just export them to New Zealand instead, or wherever.

I prefer not to live in an enclosed isolated island cut off from rest of Europe and world and live a miserable life,
Like the people of Norway?

right now I can just sit in my car, take my passport and drive off to France and pick up cheap cigarettes
Which you could still do if we left the EU.
 
RE to multinationals leaving Britain and setting up in mainland europe, I don't know what things you will still have, of course you could have anything but at a cost.

My views are not going to change as they are based on real life experience.

Why do you think my mate who works for a German bank told me he has been told he has choice, either he moves to Germany or take redundancy as the bank has already decided Brexit is not healthy for its mostly German customers, this comes as shock to him and his many other colleagues, none are in a position to settle in Germany.

as For Norway comparing with Britain, Norway's population is a fraction of Britains, so the two cannot be compared, Did Norway colonise the world? Same like Switzerland, they are not a member of Nato and again you cannot compare them to Britain, or Germany or France and Spain and Portugal, the 4 main colonial powers.

So now having sowed the seeds of colonialism, we all have to bear the fruits as well and we might as well, and enjoy freedom to move freely.
 
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