Is it a defining moment?

[Lincsbodger]

With PR you'd have to get rid of the local seats system, meaning that no mp is answerable to any one place and that also sucks.

And thats the killer point. ATM you have the right to buttonhole your local MP, with Pr you havent a local MP, you lost accountability, and in the light of the expenses scndal and other issues, losing accountability isnt really very desirable.

 

[JohnD]

i haven't edited anything out...I posted the exact same comment twice by accident and changed the second post to local councils.

I now see that you only changed one of your posts and have already removed my comment

btw my "local MP" was parachuted in from Central Office. He is a Party Man not a Local Man.

 

[skitzee2k]

i haven't edited anything out...I posted the exact same comment twice by accident and changed the second post to local councils.

I now see that you only changed one of your posts and have already removed my comment

btw my "local MP" was parachuted in from Central Office. He is a Party Man not a Local Man.

which the locals voted in.

 

[JohnD]

which the unthinking herd of party loyalists voted in.

they'd vote for a sheep if he had the right colour rosette.

it happens all the time.

think of Caligula's horse.

so we're already voting for Party Lists.

 

[skitzee2k]

which the unthinking herd of party loyalists voted in.

they'd vote for a sheep if he had the right colour rosette.

it happens all the time.

think of Caligula's horse.

so we're already voting for Party Lists.

....and the PR system would just mean that these unthinking herds will have more power.

BUT atleast you can get rid of specific MPs (Bye bye Mrs Smith )

 

[Infidel]

What you all seem to forget is that PR is used in one part of the UK, if it is ok for them then why not the rest of us?

 

[skitzee2k]

What you all seem to forget is that PR is used in one part of the UK, if it is ok for them then why not the rest of us?

Because all the important decisions are taken in a place with Fptp

 

[Infidel]

Because all the important decisions are taken in a place with Fptp

First past the post has caused this hiatus, get a clear unassailable majority or **** off. Thats worked well !

 

[skitzee2k]

Because all the important decisions are taken in a place with Fptp

First past the post has caused this hiatus, get a clear unassailable majority or **** off. Thats worked well !

...better than...., get a minority and slowly and surely sell half of the policies that your voters voted for up the river along with another party that will have to go back on THEIR polices in turn, meaning no-one has any chance of getting what they vote for just to form a government

FPTP is the only reason we haven't been in this situation every single election day.

Out of interest...how do you HALF scrap trident?? Or HALF cap immigration and half offer an amnesty?

Yes, we are in a bad situation, but it doesn't happen often. We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

 

[JohnD]

We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

Have you evidence for this assertion, or is it just a guess?

(please include contemporary examples from other major European countries in your reply)

 

[Infidel]

Out of interest...how do you HALF scrap trident?? Or HALF cap immigration and half offer an amnesty?

Yes, we are in a bad situation, but it doesn't happen often. We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

Stupid observation quite honestly, what are they trying to do at the moment? negotiate I should hope you give us this we'll give you that etc, proportional negotiation.

 

[skitzee2k]

We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

Have you evidence for this assertion, or is it just a guess?

(please include contemporary examples from other European countries in your reply)

Well pretty much every european government with PR is formed by coalition right? Austria, Germany, Ireland, Italy etc yes?...and in our country we would have to have a coalition.
This means that what would be our 3 party system, atleast 2 of the parties would have to join up...and as no 2 parties have the same policies (otherwise they would be the same party) they would have to start dropping policies...(some probably the only reason they got voted in for).

Hope this is factual enough for you..but it really is common sense.

Pr would mean a more even split of the seats meaning a need to make concessions.

 

[skitzee2k]

Out of interest...how do you HALF scrap trident?? Or HALF cap immigration and half offer an amnesty?

Yes, we are in a bad situation, but it doesn't happen often. We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

Stupid observation quite honestly, what are they trying to do at the moment? negotiate I should hope you give us this we'll give you that etc, proportional negotiation.

...but the voters didn't vote for the party only to see their policies mutilated...and in no way will this be proportional. The Libs will punch FAR beyond their weight as they have nothing to lose. They have more power now than they have ever had and they LOST 6 seats!!

 

[Lincsbodger]

Out of interest...how do you HALF scrap trident?? Or HALF cap immigration and half offer an amnesty?

Yes, we are in a bad situation, but it doesn't happen often. We'd be faced with this crap a lot more if PR was introduced.

Stupid observation quite honestly, what are they trying to do at the moment? negotiate I should hope you give us this we'll give you that etc, proportional negotiation.

...but the voters didn't vote for the party only to see their policies mutilated...and in no way will this be proportional. The Libs will punch FAR beyond their weight as they have nothing to lose. They have more power now than they have ever had and they LOST 6 seats!!

Thats right, this is why i hate the phrase 'Balanced Parliament' , how is it balanced when 59 MP's can hold the other 591 to ransom ?

 

[JohnD]

So "crap" means policies that are widely agreed rather than ones which do not have wide support?