More deaths in the channel.

[denso13]

Apparently it’s the government’s fault

Apparently it's the RNLI's fault. Or the French. Or the Lawyers.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Untrue. I never claimed all illegals were prosecuted. I said all adults crossing without leave to enter the U.K. are illegal immigrants, irrelevant of any subsequent asylum claim.

The U.K. no longer allows asylum claims for illegal immigrants crossing via small boat with only a few exceptions. If you want to learn what’s changed look at the case law I provided. Judge cavanagh’s ruling.

I don’t particularly care what you think I do for income.

You should go back and read your answer to the question again.

Were you misleading on purpose ?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Untrue. I never claimed all illegals were prosecuted. I said all adults crossing without leave to enter the U.K. are illegal immigrants, irrelevant of any subsequent asylum claim.

The U.K. no longer allows asylum claims for illegal immigrants crossing via small boat with only a few exceptions. If you want to learn what’s changed look at the case law I provided. Judge cavanagh’s ruling.

I don’t particularly care what you think I do for income.

Let's try this.

I asked you. I'm not bothered whether people can be prosecuted or not. I'm interested in how many actually are, and how many are removed?


You said. The sentence is 9 months, they are arrested and remanded in custody upon arrival. All Adults crossing this way can be prosecuted under s24. They are all illegal immigrants, irrelevant of intention to claim asylum. Remember they have had many opportunities to claim asylum in many safe countries on the way.

So I checked, and asked. How many ?
And. Are they ? Really?

You answered. yup

So I double checked with.
Remanded in custody where?

We don't need houses, hotels or barges then?

Sounds like the rnli are actually part of the system. Fetch them, arrest them.


So, were you misleading or downright incorrect ? Don't forget you also tried to tell me " it was all in my head" , which leads me to think it was downright incorrect.

Very poor for a legal guy. Oh, and you should know, how many dodgy lawyers (your words, not mine) have been arrested?

 

[motorbiking]

Nothing I said was incorrect.

You jumped to your own conclusions.

To recap.

1 this is new law which has only been in place a few months
2 cps are targeting unlawful returners (s24) facilitators (s25) or those suspected of facilitating, or other s24 aggravating factors with the easier charge of unlawful entry (s24). They have said they do not have the resources to prosecute 50k illegals per year. “For now”. That is in the case law, I linked.
3 all can be prosecuted under s24 illegal entry. All are illegals.
4 government intends to refuse all small boat illegals asylum claims with 2 exceptions (human trafficking, and minors)
5 who knows what will happen to them. They will probably get told to leave. Some will, some won’t, none will get asylum according to government plans.
6 those prosecuted for illegal entry s24 typically get 9 months as most plead guilty. S25 is usually around 4 years.
7 these are summary/either way offences which do not typically get reported. You will need to read the court watcher blogs to get an idea of what’s going on or submit an FOI request.

How many dodgy lawyers? That’s probably a different thread. Around 50 a year are struck off.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Nothing I said was incorrect.

You jumped to your own conclusions.

To recap.

1 this is new law which has only been in place a few months
2 cps are targeting unlawful returners (s24) facilitators (s25) or those suspected of facilitating, or other s24 aggravating factors with the easier charge of unlawful entry (s24). They have said they do not have the resources to prosecute 50k illegals per year. “For now”. That is in the case law, I linked.
3 all can be prosecuted under s24 illegal entry. All are illegals.
4 government intends to refuse all small boat illegals asylum claims with 2 exceptions (human trafficking, and minors)
5 who knows what will happen to them. They will probably get told to leave. Some will, some won’t, none will get asylum according to government plans.
6 those prosecuted for illegal entry s24 typically get 9 months as most plead guilty. S25 is usually around 4 years.
7 these are summary/either way offences which do not typically get reported. You will need to read the court watcher blogs to get an idea of what’s going on or submit an FOI request.

How many dodgy lawyers? That’s probably a different thread. Around 50 a year are struck off.

So it was intentionally misleading

Interesting. But no surprise.

If you don't want to look at a clear full picture you will never be able to get on top of any problem.

Just like 3 word slogans, a Tory mainstay

 

[motorbiking]

Or C you just didn’t read it properly

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Or C you just didn’t read it properly

No. You were intentionally misleading.

Deliberately. But you think you present a fair case. You don't. You only ever see 1 side of any picture. Law doesn't work like that.

In any other trade you would be considered a shark

 

[Roy Bloom]

...
2 cps are targeting unlawful returners (s24) facilitators (s25) or those suspected of facilitating, or other s24 aggravating factors with the easier charge of unlawful entry (s24). They have said they do not have the resources to prosecute 50k illegals per year. “For now”. That is in the case law, I linked.
3 all can be prosecuted under s24 illegal entry. All are illegals.
...

So prosecution is random and haphazard.

5 who knows what will happen to them. They will probably get told to leave. Some will, some won’t, none will get asylum according to government plans.
6 those prosecuted for illegal entry s24 typically get 9 months as most plead guilty. S25 is usually around 4 years.

We know what happens to them, They are imprisoned on arrival, and by the time of their trial they have already served their sentence so are immediatley released.
We don't know if their application is summarily rejected, or if it is allowed to continue.
If it is rejected, they cannot be deported due to the refoulement clause of the Charter.
So they are released onto the street, denied access to Public Funds, unable to rent anywhere if they had the funds, unnable to work if they had the skills or qualifications.

As I said, fodder for the black market, slavery or criminality.
An unintended consequence?
Hasn't the UK goverment got the foresight to predict this situation?

 

[denso13]

Hasn't the UK goverment got the foresight to predict this situation?

Some people think it has nothing to do with the Government. Blame the French, and the RNLI, and, well, anyone else. Classic deflection tactics.

 

[motorbiking]

So prosecution is random and haphazard.

It's not random if they follow a criteria, which they do. It may be your bad luck that you sat near the outboard, but I suspect the smugglers charge different fees depending on the role you play.

We don't know if their application is summarily rejected, or if it is allowed to continue.

The purpose of the new laws is to reject all asylum claims from those who come here illegally via small boat. I agree that they (those prosecuted) will typically spend more time on remand, than the sentence. They do have the opportunity to fast track via a guilty plea.

So they are released onto the street, denied access to Public Funds, unable to rent anywhere if they had the funds, unnable to work if they had the skills or qualifications.

what evidence do you have to back this up?

refoulement

easily dispatched with legally, send them somewhere safe. but a convicted criminal can lose their right to protection anyway.

 

[denso13]

It's not random if they follow a criteria, which they do.

They claim they do but they obviously don't. It's pot luck and random.

 

[motorbiking]

evidence?

 

[denso13]

There are more boats than prosecutions.

 

[motorbiking]

Do you think the CPS are lying then? or are you saying from an individual's point of view, its random as to if you get photographed or accused of being at the helm?

 

[denso13]

I don't know what the official CPS line is. But there are more boats than prosecutions therefore some facilitators aren't being charged. I don't know what criteria they use to charge/not charge.