Mr Bates and the post office

[Odds]

It might be a start if we can change the culture of apportioning responsibility from the above examples, to those who really are responsible (people).


Ford aren't blamed because some half-blind, half-drunk, or Insta addict crashes their car through a queue at a bus stop.


As long as people can misrepresent, lie, and even commit perjury to secure the results they want, all the while with the get-out-of-jail-free-card of "it was the PO!" to fall back on, nothing will change.

It's the cynical vote-grabbing by a desperate Tory govt. to finally be seen to be doing something about it after public anger is reignited by the programme. That's my point.

 

[Brigadier]

Read what mb posted.

It's that that needs challenging

Don't take my quoting of you - as recent examples from the thread - personally.

I stand by (the principle of) what I posted.

 

[Brigadier]

It's the cynical vote-grabbing by a desperate Tory govt. to finally be seen to be doing something about it after public anger is reignited by the programme. That's my point.

That's as maybe, but see also my post #32.

 

[Odds]

Don't take my quoting of you - as recent examples from the thread - personally.

I stand by (the principle of) what I posted.

And that principle is...what?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Don't take my quoting of you - as recent examples from the thread - personally.

I stand by (the principle of) what I posted.

And so do I.

While people like mb attempt to focus the responsibility away from the vote grabbing opportunistic politicians and blame the previous lot, it needs challenging.

I have no doubt that the issue is bad management. So let's not try and blame the party that is not even in power.

Challenge MB

 

[Brigadier]

And that principle is...what?

Where an individual makes a decision, they are responsible for that decision.

 

[Brigadier]

Don't take my quoting of you - as recent examples from the thread - personally.

Challenge MB

It is about you taking it personally then.


Like I said, recent thread examples.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

It is about you taking it personally then.


Like I said, recent thread examples.

You didn't read what mb posted ?

I think that attitude needs challenging.

 

[Odds]

Where an individual makes a decision, they are responsible for that decision.

The sub-postmasters were not involved in the decision to implement the Horizon software. How are they responsible for the failures of the PO?

 

[Brigadier]

You didn't read what mb posted ?

Be specific.

 

[Brigadier]

The sub-postmasters were not involved in the decision to implement the Horizon software. How are they responsible for the failures of the PO?

The sub-postmasters weren't lying, or committing perjury, to secure convictions against themselves.

Are you being deliberately stupid?

 

[Odds]

Where an individual makes a decision, they are responsible for that decision.

The sub-postmasters weren't lying, or committing perjury, to secure convictions against themselves.

Are you being deliberately stupid?

Are you saying the PO is an individual in this case?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Be specific.

Horizon was on labours watch, one of the many massive IT failures that they liked to commission during the ERP boom years. Tories, just have to clear the mess up

 

[motorbiking]

There was clearly a time when PO staff may have felt that horizon was catching fraudsters that the paper system could hide (97-00). There was clearly a time when they may have justifiably thought Horizon bashing was just standard user moaning about a new IT system. However, the line is crossed when you instigate a cover up (00-09). Another line is crossed when you knowingly threaten to prosecute someone for a crime you have no evidence of in order to get them to accept a lessor charge (systemic). Another when you lie to court (00-15) and another when you take every possible step to keep a lid on the issue 08-20), despite evidence that people's lives are being ruined.

It was people that did this, not a government and not organisations. People can be cynical about Sunak's opportunism, but you can also see that awareness of the scale of the issue, didn't really come to light until the case in 2019.

People will have to account for why they crossed lines, they will have to show their orders and who ordered them to do it.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

It was people that did this, not a government and not organisations. People can be cynical about Sunak's opportunism, but you can also see that awareness of the scale of the issue, didn't really come to light until the case in 2019.

2019. 4 years or so and now an election is appearing

Cynicism?