Plumbers/heating engineers- is this standard? (Value of scrap) (Ed.)

[Harry Bloomfield]

50% of the time skips get additions, not subtractions....

Mattresses and 2cv's ?

 

[johnny2007]

So, you believe it would be absolutely fine, for you to walk in my front gate, and help yourself to anything you might fancy, which was left in the open? I don't, it would be trespass, and theft, unless my permission was agreed beforehand.

Likewise, if I had a skip out front. The property in it, either belongs to me, or the skip company - anyone else attempting to relieve anything from it, it is theft.

Not fine, but surely not theft to take them.
Unless the taker admits that they knew they were not to take it.
It's all in the wording, but I know it's difficult to read for some people.
The op's builder did not steal because there is a genuine belief that taking away leftover old junk from a customer's house is the done thing.
My customers would be pretty upset if I left all kitchen cuttings for them to sort out.
And the saw dust?
That comes from their panels, so it's their property.
Next job I'll collect all of that and leave it in the garden, I wonder what would happen.

Note: in my quotes I always include final cleaning and taking away all leftover material and waste, so no problems there.
However, something customers want to keep something and I let them, saves me carrying it around and dispose of it.
No trader survives on a few bits of scrap.

 

[johnny2007]

I find that people with less than three neurons working, are the first one's to resort to insults.

Statements of facts are not insults.

 

[gas112]

Not fine, but surely not theft to take them.
Unless the taker admits that they knew they were not to take it.

so all you have to say when nicking something is oh i thought they didnt want it .
Is valuable scrap and parts waste ?

 

[johnny2007]

so all you have to say when nicking something is oh i thought they didnt want it .
Is valuable scrap and parts waste ?

Exactly.
If it's not in a secure area (open front garden) and the taker says that they thought they didn't want it, they're not stealing.
If you don't believe it, speak to any police officer or solicitor.
Or, read the theft act, it's explained there very clearly (for people who can read)

 

[gas112]

Exactly.
If it's not in a secure area (open front garden) and the taker says that they thought they didn't want it, they're not stealing.
If you don't believe it, speak to any police officer or solicitor.
Or, read the theft act, it's explained there very clearly (for people who can read)

really so they could take your garden swing garden bench potted plants baskets kids bikes toys etc etc

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Not fine, but surely not theft to take them.

It's theft - taking without permission of the owner. It is not OK to just assume, because something is not bolted down, that it's OK to take it. Chairs, tables, watches are not bolted down - are they OK to assume the owner doesn't want them, to just take them?

 

[ebee]

50% of the time skips get additions, not subtractions....

It is still theft, theft of the space the buyer has paid for hire of the skip, the courts make that disctinction if you use someone else`s slip without permission.

 

[drives]

The in

The boot is on the other foot. Your property must not be removed unless it is in the contract to do so. I is theft and therefore an arrestable offence.
The tradesmen should have sought permission from the owner of those goods, one way would be to state clearly in the contract (i.e. the estimate) .
I remember a few years back a local "Quick Fit" asking if I wanted them to dispose of my o;d exhaust when they fitted a new one. they informed me they had been instructed to ask each customer and of course each customer and of course each customer replied yes please.
Apparently one customer had taken them to court and it ended up in them having to pay up plus various costs so they informed me.
As an electrician I always asked customers if they wanted me to remove rubbish but if was intending to remove anything to be sold as scrap or might be useable for themselves or someone then I would specifically ask about each item.

I once took exception at an opticians, got my new glasses (spectacles) , tried them, the tweaked them etc , all well and good then as I came to leave I could not find my existing glasses, the chap told me they had thrown them in the bin, I told them they had no right to steal or damage my property and to return them immediately, they replied I did not need them them because I now had new ones. That got me angry, I told them I would decide whether or not I wanted to keep them (I did as a back up spare just in case) and insisted that they return them immediately. Ho I was furious, what right had they to do that? None, the cheeky gits, I did let them see me check them for damage when they returned them.
I could not believe they actually did that without prior consent, what an uncivilised rabble they were!
The cheeky Bar Stewards

Some interesting case studies there.....

I concur that it is for the tradesperson to specify in the contract and not turn it around on the customer. A reasonable person wouldn't classify a cylinder worth just under £100 as waste. If they are happy for the plumber to realise the value, then fine. But just taking it, annoys me.

Regarding me asking for the items back- I've got bigger issues I'm challenging with this current bunch so I'd rather focus my efforts on that. Like why they've invoiced me for a brand new smart thermostat and installed a grubby old circa 2019 model....

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Where I live, we get them prowling several times per week, in overloaded, untaxed, uninsured Transits. I have my caravan, plus other quite valuable items, in my garden. The valuable items are blocked in by the caravan, and the caravan cannot be extracted, except very slowly, and carefully. Every few weeks, I get a knock at the door, almost demanding I sell them my caravan. They generally get a short answer from me. I even, though rarely, caught them inside my gates, prowling, whereupon I see them off. Several local homes, lack gates, I often see them prowling the properties and helping themselves.

I'm sure I would see more of them, except my gate has a sign on it, warning that there are dogs on the loose.

 

[drives]

I find heat geeks and Urban plumbers YouTube channels really interesting on ASHP…..those channels make it clear the problems with ASHP is the lack of knowledge in this country in system design / installation, not the technology. It seems even poorly insulated houses can work with it well.

I had a new gas boiler earlier this year and got a system with hot water priority and weather compensation. The flow temps are always pretty low, usually between 30 and 40 degrees, it’s a really comfortable heat.

I am sure you will be really pleased with your system

Thanks! Your setup is exactly what we are aiming for, but with the ashp. Weather compensation, and better comfort. The previous owner of our house had panels installed as well so it just seemed to make sense going down this route and at the end of the day it's just another way of heating the water up. Plus- we personally liked the idea of an outdoor unit, and ditching gas so we just have one standing charge. It is all about the size of the radiators, to compensate for lower flow temps. Luckily quite a few of our rads were oversized anyway. I suspect the plumbers who disparage them are the same ones who just whack a 30kW boiler into any house regardless of heat loss.

 

[Stivino]

Statements of facts are not insults.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and to remove all doubt.

 

[Elsa TLC]

No reputable plumber is going to be refitting your Magnaclean or pump - it's junk

I have kept old pumps and have offered them to customer for £30 no returns or a new one.

If it's better than what they have then let's recycle.

I'm not make a rod, they know the score.

 

[Elsa TLC]

Likewise, if I had a skip out front. The property in it, either belongs to me, or the skip company - anyone else attempting to relieve anything from it, it is theft.

If the plumber takes the rubbish and recycling then he is effectively the skip company.

He didn't walk through the door uninvited.

 

[Elsa TLC]

When I had my boiler replaced, I asked them to leave the old one. It was a Potterton profile and I had recently (within 9 months) fitted a new PCB, a plastic bottom cover and the heat control knob. I sold those bits on eBay and got over a hundred quid for them.

And that's what drives should have done.

If I'm asked to do so then I will.


I will however state in my estimates that what comes out is either recycled or disposed of by me in a responsible manner.