Putin, arse, elbow

[Vinty]

It’s the equivalent of trying to hand wave what Russia are doing and the blatant war crimes they are committing with “yeah but Iraq

If you are prepared to justify the crimes of your own side, why complain about others doing the same.
The intentional killing of civilians is a war crime according to the rules of war but according to you, it all depends how you define the word intentional.

 

[Vinty]

Vinty is a Putin puppet

Notch is a liar.
Who can't win an argument without resorting to lies and smears.

 

[Vinty]

That's the problem. The other aspect with soldiers is that they are likely to know people who have been killed and injured. When things crop up there seems to be a reluctance to prosecute soldiers. Then comes the war of words.

TBH I think Ukraine is a place where 1 of 2 things were bound to happen at some point for rather a long time now. 1 of them has. I also think the "results" of wars has changed

In WWII there were 384,000 soldiers killed in combat, but a higher civilian death toll (70,000, as opposed to 2,000 in WWI), largely due to German bombing raids during the Blitz: 40,000 civilians died in the seven-month period between September 1940 and May 1941, almost half of them in London.

I'm not surprised that they don't include WWI combat deaths especially what was need for an unconditional surrender.

Advances in technology have meant war moving from 2 armies facing each other on a battlefield with single shot muskets, to Drones armed with guided missiles which are being controlled by someone 1000's of miles away.
This means the front line can be anywhere and when you have irregular forces embedding themselves in civilian areas, it is always going to be the ordinary folk who will come off worst.

 

[albaPhenom]

If you are prepared to justify the crimes of your own side, why complain about others doing the same.
The intentional killing of civilians is a war crime according to the rules of war but according to you, it all depends how you define the word intentional.

Who justified the crimes of his own side?

Thank you for telling me what I believe.

 

[bernardgreen]

it all depends how you define the word intentional.

The Russian definition of intentional includes tying a person's hands together and then shooting them.

 

[Notch7]

Notch is a liar.
Who can't win an argument without resorting to lies and smears.

It’s blatantly obvious Russia has committed war crimes
anybody who can’t bring themselves to say so is a Putin sympathiser.

 

[ajohn]

Some one introduced as from an independent Russian newspaper made an interesting comment about Russia's fake news etc.He says they should have commented in the way this sort of thing usually is. The area that has been hammered by both sides. Apologies if atrocities have occurred, They will be investigated and the correct actions taken. He feels that just saying it was staged etc is not good for their image. As independent I doubt if he is in Russia.

The was an interesting program on BBC last night concerning fake news and what it tends to do and usage of it by Trump like people and others. One instance cropped up concerning the UK where something was known to be fake and it wasn't discouraged. I concerned Germans rendering down soldier to make soap and other things. I assume they were dead ones. It seems rumours about slaughtering Jews and others were not believed or is that the "official"view?

Bucha has been hammered by both sides. Fighting in a built up area. Results in that respect are likely to be typical. Then comes the other aspects.

 

[ajohn]

An interesting report on Bucha with more detail than some
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/in-ukr...bound-and-a-bullet-wound-to-the-head/47488344

 

[bernardgreen]

for what it is worth an extract from

https://theins.ru/confession/249947

On April 2, the Russian military began to retreat from Bucha, Kiev region. This is one of the cities where the most fierce battles were fought. When Bucha was released, a terrible picture opened up to journalists: the streets were littered with the bodies of dead civilians, including women and the elderly, while some had their hands tied behind their backs, some died from shots in the back of the head. The Insider spoke to the residents of Bucha, and they told how the Russian military shot random passers-by, robbed houses and did not let them leave.

 

[Justin Passing]

Thank dog for the press.
Even the fake news press. Seeing it called out by the rest of the press, is some sort of evidence that some good people are really interested in reporting WTF is going on.

Russia seems to have forgotten that the press would be pouring onto Ukraine and getting eye-witness accounts. Putin cannot point to an industry creating hundreds of fake casualities in news for the west, in the territory he just left, because it doesn't exist, and he can't create one to exhibit.
If ever the decent people of Russia get to see the drone footage of Mariupol, then millions of them will surely be wondering whether the stories that "they bombed their own country" can be true.

If the West has been more restrained in the more disgusting activities of war in recent times, I think it may be because the Press will show it up, and that does cause the warlords to think twice. And the warlords' adversaries in their own midst, to call them out for it.

Case in point - which nation suffered the most civilian casualties in WW2?
Russia?

A lot of folk would be surprised to hear the answer "China". (OK it's contested, but it's probably China)
Well - nobody was reporting it.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Thank dog for the press.
Even the fake news press. Seeing it called out by the rest of the press, is some sort of evidence that some good people are really interested in reporting WTF is going on.

Russia seems to have forgotten that the press would be pouring onto Ukraine and getting eye-witness accounts. Putin cannot point to an industry creating hundreds of fake casualities in news for the west, in the territory he just left, because it doesn't exist, and he can't create one to exhibit.
If ever the decent people of Russia get to see the drone footage of Mariupol, then millions of them will surely be wondering whether the stories that "they bombed their own country" can be true.

If the West has been more restrained in the more disgusting activities of war in recent times, I think it may be because the Press will show it up, and that does cause the warlords to think twice. And the warlords' adversaries in their own midst, to call them out for it.

Case in point - which nation suffered the most civilian casualties in WW2?
Russia?

A lot of folk would be surprised to hear the answer "China". (OK it's contested, but it's probably China)
Well - nobody was reporting it.

It's almost laughable that Russia pull their usual trick of saying 'nope, not us guv, we ain't doing anything wrong, everything said against us is a fabricated lie, everything we do is in the name of peace ...'

The sad thing is, whilst a % in Russia will know this is bullsh1t, a significant % through exposure mainly to state media, will believe (albeit to varying degrees) what they're being fed.

As usual, world powers tinker around the edges whilst innocent people are raped and killed.

 

[JohnD]

Putin controls the media, and access to the internet, and anyone in Russia who circulates "lies" (the truth) or calls the invasion "an invasion" or the war "a war" is liable to be arrested and fined or imprisoned.

 

[JohnD]

It’s blatantly obvious Russia has committed war crimes
anybody who can’t bring themselves to say so is a Putin sympathiser.

Vinty denies that he is a Putin supporter.

In other news, Putin denies that Russia has invaded Ukraine.

 

[transam]

Russia always deny responsibility for any thing

shoot down an airliner
Chemical weapons use in Syria
Chemical weapons used in the UK
Radioactive poisons used in the UK

this caper in the Ukraine and there narrative is what

Russia is the invader and the ukranians are the aggressors

the west needs to up the type of weapons they are supplying to them to offensive weapons

the Ukranian president does not seem to impressed with that scoundrel Macron

 

[fillyboy]

the west needs to up the type of weapons they are supplying to them to offensive weapons

I believe the UK has that in hand.

the Ukranian president does not seem to impressed with that scoundrel Macron

Yes Macron continues to make a fool of himself, meanwhile, Zelensky seems keener than ever on our Boris.

"Thank you Boris for the leadership, historical leadership"

I wouldn't be surprised if Zelensky offers to pay Boris's fixed penalty.