Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Draft Bill

[motorbiking]

Q1 Disposing of your ID increases your chances of success

- passport can establish links to safe 3rd country
- passport can show how long you remained in that country
- no ID makes it harder to prove you are not from the place you claim
- no ID makes it harder to prove you are not a failed asylum seeker from another country.
etc.

Q2 2) burden on proof is very low

read your document..

Asylum decisions – general points ........................................................................... 14
Burden and standard of proof ............................................................................... 14
Unknown nationality cases (previously described as ‘doubtful nationality’) ....... 14
Disputed nationality and other cases ................................................................ 14
Statelessness in asylum cases ......................................................................... 14

Page 14.

The burden of proof rests with the claimant to show that they qualify for protection under the Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights, including evidencing their nationality. The standard of proof that the claimant needs to meet is the lower standard, they just need to show a reasonable degree of likelihood (or real risk) that they will face persecution...

If the Home Office considers the claimant to be a specific nationality other than that claimed, the burden of proof rests with the Home Office to prove the assertion according to the balance of probabilities standard (this is a higher threshold than the lower standard of proof – reasonable likelihood - mentioned above). The test is met if it is more likely than not that the claimant holds the asserted nationality.

 

[Notch7]

Q1 Disposing of your ID increases your chances of success

- passport can establish links to safe 3rd country
- passport can show how long you remained in that country
- no ID makes it harder to prove you are not from the place you claim
- no ID makes it harder to prove you are not a failed asylum seeker from another country.
etc.

the part youve quoted provides no evidence whatsoever that having no ID increases your chance of approval

you say: "having no ID makes it harder to prove you are not from the place you claim" -that does not prove the home office will approve your claim

you say "no ID makes it harder to prove you are not a failed asylum seeker from another country" -that doesnt mean the home office will approve your claim


You need to provide evidence that the home office go easy on those that rock up with no documentation

So far you have nothing

read your document..

Asylum decisions – general points ........................................................................... 14
Burden and standard of proof ............................................................................... 14
Unknown nationality cases (previously described as ‘doubtful nationality’) ....... 14
Disputed nationality and other cases ................................................................ 14
Statelessness in asylum cases ......................................................................... 14

So your evidence is "go read page 14"

I guess you cant provide any actual quote from the document that supports your claim

 

[motorbiking]

The numbers speak for themselves - I don't need to prove anything. You asked a load of questions, I'm trying to help you find the answers. Funnily enough they were in your own document.

It's a fact that hardly any small boat people arrive with any ID. A few 100 out of the many 1,000. It's a fact that until the law changed, the vast majority had their claims approved.

This is because:

1. the burden of proof that they are persecuted is to a low legal standard. "reasonably likely". "I am a Gay Iranian Christian."
2. If the home office believes I are not Iranian, it must prove it, to a higher standard. "more likely, than not likely". It would be impossible to prove I am not gay nor a convert to christianity. I suspect in Iran, I just need to be accused and it's off to the scaffold tower.

None of that helps the home offie deport me back to wherever it thinks I came from, if I have no documentation and refuse to cooperate.

This is why we have 10s of thousands of in progress and rejected claimants, that cannot be deported.

With the countries we have agreed deals £££ with, they have a financial incentive to assist. There is all sorts of technology that can match a person to a database: biometric, facial recognitions, finger prints etc. not to mention good old fashioned detective work.

 

[Brigadier]

If the home office believes I are not Iranian, it must prove it, to a higher standard. "more likely, than not likely". It would be impossible to prove I am not gay nor a convert to christianity. I suspect in Iran, I just need to be accused and it's off to the scaffold tower.

And then the accused would say,

"I'm not going up there: it's a death trap."

 

[Notch7]

The numbers speak for themselves - I don't need to prove anything

You claimed having no ID makes it easier to get asylum.

If you want to prove that is true, you need to provide the evidence

saying “there’s a number with no comparison to anything” is not evidence.


I hope you don’t advise your clients on any legal matters requiring evidence, seems you don’t know what it is

t's a fact that hardly any small boat people arrive with any ID.

Its no surprise people escaping from a country of war or a despotic regime don’t have ID on them.

it is a non sequitur to claim that means it must be easier to obtain asylum.

(by the way asylum seekers are fingerprinted in EU and U.K. so If they are trying a second attempt after a rejection, that would be likely to show up)

the burden of proof that they are persecuted is to a low legal standard

That has nothing to do with whether it’s easier to obtain asylum without ID.

please stick to the facts

This is why we have 10s of thousands of in progress

You’ve no evidence to support that assertion

please avoid stating opinion as fact.

Ive already proven why the home office is so slow: incompetent govt

 

[gant]

How many are escaping conscription notch which is conspicuous by its absence from all your comments.
Wouldn't it be in their interests to destroy paperwork that identifies them.

 

[Mottie]

People don’t just up sticks and go to a new country on a whim, they do it because where they are is intolerable.

Listening to you, you'd think the U.K. is intolerable. When are you leaving and where are you going?

 

[Mottie]

if they get asylum they can get

….a council house? Free healthcare? Free Education? Relatives over? Benefits?

 

[blup]

Should be renamed safety of tory mp's in marginal blue wall constituencies bill

Blup

 

[transam]

….a council house? Free healthcare? Free Education? Relatives over? Benefits?

Plus free legal aid And put up
In a free hotel ??

 

[denso13]

Plus free legal aid And put up
In a free hotel ??

Let them work and take it off their wages. Or don't, and provide their basic need for them.

 

[gant]

Let them work and take it off their wages. Or don't, and provide their basic need for them.

Take it your job won't be affected by an over supply of labour bringing down wages.

 

[denso13]

Take it your job won't be affected by an over supply of labour bringing down wages.

No. But you can decide to not let them work and cover their basic needs as happens now. Which do you prefer?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Take it your job won't be affected by an over supply of labour bringing down wages.

I thought there was a shortage of workers holding the economy back

 

[ajohn]

The new bill has been passed. The brexit mob are up in arms and some other groups too.

I have heard pass on true or not that once in Rwanda people can apply for asylum in the UK. That has some fascinating possibilities. Also legally a transfer means that some one has been moved in order to apply for asylum which isn't the same as just flatly refusing it.

The imigration split between these people and others is rather interesting as well. Once a subject has been politicised though people are unlikely to think about that.

Oh new number Rwanda is now scheduled to be given ~£400m. Talk about making a cross for your own back.