Sinn Fein members elected to Westminster

[Roy Bloom]

Does this clown you quote give any evidence to support his claims.

The well respected professor of history gives his opinion on his knowledge of history.

What he doesn't do is to post some cut and pasted links that refute his own comments.

Odds claimed that Protestants denied rights to Roman Catholics for 300 years.
I pointed out that Protestants in Ulster had their rights denied as well.

The Penal Laws were introduced into Ireland ...The laws' principal victims were members of the Catholic Church, ...

• ...
• Registration Act 1704
• Popery Act 1704 and 1709
• ...

...

I've already pointed out that at least two of your quoted Acts were denying Catholics their rights.

 

[Vinty]

The well respected professor of history gives his opinion on his knowledge of history.

What he doesn't do is to post some cut and pasted links that refute his own comments.

I've already pointed out that at least two of your quoted Acts were denying Catholics their rights.

Respected by whom?
I asked you to show evidence to support his claim of systematic discrimination against Catholics by the state.
You reply with irrelevant nonsense from centuries ago.
It is all too easy to engage in smears against Unionists because no one can
arsed to find out whether there is any substance to this nonsense.
Those that have made the effort to examine impartially these claims of discrimination, have shown them to be false or grossly exaggerated for political purposes.

CAIN: Issue: Discrimination: Discrimination in Housing and Employment under the Stormont Administration, by Graham Gudgin

 

[Roy Bloom]

Respected by whom?
I asked you to show evidence to support his claim of systematic discrimination against Catholics by the state.
You reply with irrelevant nonsense from centuries ago.
It is all too easy to engage in smears against Unionists because no one can
arsed to find out whether there is any substance to this nonsense.
Those that have made the effort to examine impartially these claims of discrimination, have shown them to be false or grossly exaggerated for political purposes.

CAIN: Issue: Discrimination: Discrimination in Housing and Employment under the Stormont Administration, by Graham Gudgin

You mean this Graham Gudgin:
"having previously worked as Director of the Northern Ireland Economic Research Centre and as Special Advisor to the First Minister."

Seats, Votes, and the Spatial Organisation of Elections

In many elections – especially those using single-member constituency systems – the allocation of seats is incommensurate with each party's share of the votes cast. Seats, Votes and the Spatial Organisation of Elections provides a convincing, rigorous analysis of this disproportionality...

books.google.fr

Remainers becoming increasingly desperate​

by Graham Gudgin

Remainers becoming increasingly desperate - Briefings For Britain

Just for fun, here is a compendium of some of the wilder recent Remainer claims about the impact of Brexit from generally respected newspaper columnists. ‘Brexit has broken everything’ wrote one commentator and this rather sums up the childish mindset of such people.

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

The Bad Friday Agreement​

by Graham Gudgin

The Bad Friday Agreement - Briefings For Britain

The international celebrations of the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement were a moment of self-congratulation (including by the EU which played no role in it). However, the Agreement itself has not worked well and continues to bring instability to Northern Ireland politics.

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Why a UK-EU customs union remains a terrible idea
by Graham Gudgin


There are very strong reasons why the EU ought to accept the Malthouse Compromise
It was also irrelevant, since virtually no-one in the UK is advocating no deal.
Written by
Dr Graham Gudgin

Etc.

Evidently a non-partisan observer.

 

[Vinty]

You mean this Graham Gudgin:
"having previously worked as Director of the Northern Ireland Economic Research Centre and as Special Advisor to the First Minister."

Seats, Votes, and the Spatial Organisation of Elections

In many elections – especially those using single-member constituency systems – the allocation of seats is incommensurate with each party's share of the votes cast. Seats, Votes and the Spatial Organisation of Elections provides a convincing, rigorous analysis of this disproportionality...

books.google.fr

Remainers becoming increasingly desperate​

by Graham Gudgin

Remainers becoming increasingly desperate - Briefings For Britain

Just for fun, here is a compendium of some of the wilder recent Remainer claims about the impact of Brexit from generally respected newspaper columnists. ‘Brexit has broken everything’ wrote one commentator and this rather sums up the childish mindset of such people.

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

The Bad Friday Agreement​

by Graham Gudgin

The Bad Friday Agreement - Briefings For Britain

The international celebrations of the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement were a moment of self-congratulation (including by the EU which played no role in it). However, the Agreement itself has not worked well and continues to bring instability to Northern Ireland politics.

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Why a UK-EU customs union remains a terrible idea
by Graham Gudgin


There are very strong reasons why the EU ought to accept the Malthouse Compromise
It was also irrelevant, since virtually no-one in the UK is advocating no deal.
Written by
Dr Graham Gudgin

Etc.

Evidently a non-partisan observer.

Have you any evidence that the statistics or the professionals who carried out the studies into discrimination in Ulster are deliberately misleading or false.
Maybe you prefer lazy and uninformed analysis by 'respected professors'.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Have you any evidence that the statistics or the professionals who carried out the studies into discrimination in Ulster are deliberately misleading or false.
Maybe you prefer lazy and uninformed analysis by 'respected professors'.

I've discredited your preferred expert easily by showing their politics 9and by extension their academic opinion) is DUP/Brexit orientated.

Al you've done with my preferred expert is to make unfounded and spurious allegations.
See the difference?

 

[Vinty]

I've discredited your preferred expert easily by showing their politics 9and by extension their academic opinion) is DUP/Brexit orientated.

Al you've done with my preferred expert is to make unfounded and spurious allegations.
See the difference?

Your preferred 'expert' makes allegations which are tantamount to a blood libel against the citizens of N.Ireland.
These type of exaggerated claims of discrimination and oppression of Roman Catholics allow terrorists to justify their campaign of sectarian killing in N.I.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Your preferred 'expert' makes allegations which are tantamount to a blood libel against the citizens of N.Ireland.
These type of exaggerated claims of discrimination and oppression of Roman Catholics allow terrorists to justify their campaign of sectarian killing in N.I.

You're off your trolley, Vinty.
1. A blood libel is an allegation that Jews have murdered christians. It's nothing to do with Irish politics.
2. There is no justification for sectarian killing. So please don't try to justify it, or even excuse it.
3. The historical allegations of discrimination against Catholics in NI, by the Protestants is the truthful history, they're not exaggerations.
4. The article I posted is an academic article written by an eminent Uni professor. If terrorists want to use that as justification for terror activities, there's plenty of material around for them to choose from. They'll be spoiled for choice. But your crafting of your version of history is much more likely to cause division than the truth, and to perpetuate the discussion. While there are people lke you around who twist the truth out of all recognition, you reinforce the emotions experienced when people are forced to rectify your incorrect version of history.

 

[Vinty]

You're off your trolley, Vinty.
1. A blood libel is an allegation that Jews have murdered christians. It's nothing to do with Irish politics.
2. There is no justification for sectarian killing. So please don't try to justify it, or even excuse it.
3. The historical allegations of discrimination against Catholics in NI, by the Protestants is the truthful history, they're not exaggerations.

I have just realised I am responding to a troll.
Using lies about discrimination and oppression to justify a campaign of murder and terrorism against an ethno/ religious group is in my opinion a blood libel in the full sense of the term.
Despite being shown evidence that claims made by your 'preferred expert' are nonsense, you persist in repeating the same lies.

This the opinion of my preferred expert, someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

He is an American with no axe to grind.

quote..

By luck there is some good quality evidence on these issues. A major survey was undertaken in 1968 by an American professor based in Glasgow, Richard Rose. This was published in his famous book on Northern Ireland, Governing Without Consensus. The survey covered a very wide range of political and social issues and provides an invaluable benchmark of conditions and attitudes in the last years of the Stormont regime and immediately prior to the �troubles�.

​

Table 5.1 Distribution of local authority housing by religion in Northern Ireland in 1971

	Percentage of households​
	All households​	Households in local authority dwellings​
Catholic	26.1​	30.7​
Other Denominations	65.2​	60.8​
Not Known	8.7​	8.5​
Total	100.0​	100.0​
Source: Northern Ireland Census of Population, 1971

The survey included a section on housing conditions, and Professor Rose discovered what was later confirmed by the 1971 census, that is, that Catholics had a disproportionately large share of local authority houses. The advantage to Catholics was very marked in Belfast, which had a unionist council (19% of Catholics were in local authority houses compared with 9% of Protestants), and in areas with nationalist councils (39% of Catholics compared with 15% of Protestants). Elsewhere, Catholics and Protestants got an equal share of local authority houses. Professor Rose�s conclusion was that there was:

...no evidence of systematic discrimination against Catholics. The greatest bias appears to favour Catholics in areas controlled by Catholic councillors.12

Don't bother to respond.
Funking troll someone else.

 

[JohnD]

Catholics had a disproportionately large share of local authority houses.

And what were the proportions after correcting for poverty?

 

[Roy Bloom]

Using lies about discrimination and oppression to justify a campaign of murder and terrorism against an ethno/ religious group is in my opinion a blood libel in the full sense of the term.

Then it's your mistaken use of the term, nothing more, nothing less. Just like your twisted version of history.

Despite being shown evidence that claims made by your 'preferred expert' are nonsense, you persist in repeating the same lies.

You've quoted one source that was easily discredited to be politically biased. Your quoted sourse used to be an advisor to David Trimble, who held an implaccable stance towards Catholics.
"David Trimble, the leader of Northern Ireland's Protestant party, the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP), was known for a long time for his implacable stance towards the Catholics."

The Nobel Peace Prize 1998

The Nobel Peace Prize 1998 was awarded jointly to John Hume and David Trimble "for their efforts to find a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland"

www.nobelprize.org

Don't bother to respond.
Funking troll someone else.

I just did. I'll decide when it's worth my bother to respond, thanks.
If you refuse to read my responses, that's entirely up to you.

Just because I speak the truth, and you twist history out of all recognition does not make me the troll.

 

[Vinty]

And what were the proportions after correcting for poverty?

If you read the full article, you see will that allowence for income were factored into the study and it showed that Catholics living in council houses ,on balance had a higher income than Protestants who lived in council houses.
Council housing in N.I. at the time was superior to private rented sector. most of which was in slum condition, so living in a council house back should not be taken as an indication of poverty.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Why can't we all just get along

This sort of stuff goes on and on and on and on. So sad.

 

[Roy Bloom]

If you read the full article, you see will that allowence for income were factored into the study and it showed that Catholics living in council houses ,on balance had a higher income than Protestants who lived in council houses.
Council housing in N.I. at the time was superior to private rented sector. most of which was in slum condition, so living in a council house back should not be taken as an indication of poverty.

Your quotes on housing is by the very same Graham Gudgin who's been outed as politically biased.
It's like asking Alistair Cambpell for his opinion on the Iraq war.

 

[Vinty]

Your quotes on housing is by the very same Graham Gudgin who's been outed as politically biased.
It's like asking Alistair Cambpell for his opinion on the Iraq war.

Blah,Blah.
This is a typical Ulster moderate.
We need more like him.

 

[Charlie George]

Do people on here believe that the Protestants living on the Shankill Rd had better living conditions than Catholics from the Falls? the ruling class may of had better conditions (same today) but no way did the normal working class Protestant feel privileged.