Smart meter compulsory replacement

[SUNRAY]

I saw on the news that several energy providers have applied to courts to be able to gain a court order for access to replace the meter with smart after 10 attempts to do so have failed (hopefully that makes sense)
I'm not sure if I heard correctly that they had been successful.

 

[JohnW2]

I saw on the news that several energy providers have applied to courts to be able to gain a court order for access to replace the meter with smart after 10 attempts to do so have failed (hopefully that makes sense) .... I'm not sure if I heard correctly that they had been successful.

As I've often said, although I can't find it, I'm all-but-certain that the contract/service agreement I have with my supplier (which I am 'deemed to have accepted' if I use their electricity) says that I agree that they can install whatever 'metering or other equipment' in my house as they see fit in connection with their providing me with an electricity supply.

If that's the case, it would mean that I would be in breach of that contract if I refused them access to change the meter, but I don't see how they could force me to have the meter, let alone get a court to facilitate that 'forcing' - I would have thought that the most/worst they could do would be to stop supplying electricity.

... and, from the consumer's viewpoint, I don't really see how that 'forcing' could actually work, with or without the cooperation of courts, since the consumer would surely be free to terminate their contract with the particular supplier concerned, wouldn't they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

As I've often said, although I can't find it, I'm all-but-certain that the contract/service agreement I have with my supplier (which I am 'deemed to have accepted' if I use their electricity) says that I agree that they can install whatever 'metering or other equipment' in my house as they see fit in connection with their providing me with an electricity supply.

If that's the case, it would mean that I would be in breach of that contract if I refused them access to change the meter, but I don't see how they could force me to have the meter, let alone get a court to facilitate that 'forcing' - I would have thought that the most/worst they could do would be to stop supplying electricity.

... and, from the consumer's viewpoint, I don't really see how that 'forcing' could actually work, with or without the cooperation of courts, since the consumer would surely be free to terminate their contract with the particular supplier concerned, wouldn't they?

Kind Regards, John

Yes of course the customer is always able to terminate a contract... but then what?

Yes Sir of course we (A,N. Other, service provider) will be happy to start a contract with you... now we'll just come along and provide your new meter Sir

 

[JohnW2]

Yes of course the customer is always able to terminate a contract... but then what?

Well, for a start, in the absence of the contract, a court could certainly not 'force anything' onto the householder (if they ever would, even when there were a contract)!

Yes Sir of course we (A,N. Other, service provider) will be happy to start a contract with you... now we'll just come along and provide your new meter Sir

Possibly - if "A.N Other provider" also wanted to force a smart meter onto the consumer - but I one could shop around for a provider who didn't impose such a demand?

I know a good few people without smart meters who have, in recent times, 'switched supplier'without any such demands/'conditions'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Why Not Indeed]

I'm not sure if I heard correctly that they had been successful.

What I heard was about changing non-payers from post-payment to pre-payment metering. The "smart" bit of it is incidental.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

What I heard was about changing non-payers from post-payment to pre-payment metering. The "smart" bit of it is incidental.

I heard something quite similar, on the BBC News, today - The ability to resume swapping customers, from credit, to pre-pay is back, but with specific conditions to be met, before the swap can be carried out.

 

[JohnW2]

What I heard was about changing non-payers from post-payment to pre-payment metering.

Yep, I heard the same - a lifting of the 'ban' on enforced installation of pre-payment meters (a ban previously imposed because of the heavy-handed way in which some suppliers had been doing it)..

The "smart" bit of it is incidental.

As you say,whether the pre-payment meter they install is a 'smart' one is essentially irrelevant. Is it not the case that they were 'forcing' pre-payment people on some people (bad- / non-payers) long before we had even heard of 'smart' meters?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks.

I didn't hear all of it due to local chatter and thought it was about SM's.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks. I didn't hear all of it due to local chatter and thought it was about SM's.

There may possibly have been some other report relating to 'smart' meters, but the news reports heard by Harry, WNI and myself all seem to have related to the issue I've described above ('enforced' pre-payment meters, regardless of the physical type of meter).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

Yes it was to enable them to insist on fitting prepayment meters in place of credit meters.
(By certain supliers under certain conditions).
Not specifically Smart Meters as such, however in practice it probably would actually be a smart meter though nowadays.

 

[ericmark]

I was under the impression that Octopus had already said sorry no smart meter we are not interested in your account? However out of interest I just tried and it seems I can switch £84.83 monthly estimate, not sure how, when they have no idea what I am using? It lists three tariffs Intelligent, Cosy and Agile all of which include a time to have cheap rate, one for EV owners, one for heat pump owners, and one which changes daily, but all have some time of day element, so could not be used without some timed energy meter.

I suppose first thing is define a smart meter? We had white meters years ago which allowed us to have power at a reduced rate over night so that's not new, we have had meters where we had to pre-pay and they auto switched off if we didn't, so that's not new, and we has add ons to meters which allowed estimates within a few pound just corrected once a year, using ones own internet to send readings to the supplier, so that's not new.

Telemetry has been used in remote sites for years, so nothing new there, from the adverts only thing a smart meter does that the existing did not seems to be clapping ones hands to turn lights on/off which I don't believe has ever been the case, even with so called smart meters.

So to insist they are fitted, step one is define what a smart meter is. So Wikipedia says "Such an advanced metering infrastructure (AMI) differs from automatic meter reading (AMR) in that it enables two-way communication between the meter and the supplier." so it seems smart meter simply means the supplier can switch off your supply? The other point is they have it seems, power outage notification, how I am not sure, as with power outages around here with fibre phone lines the complaint is that the boxes on the street corners also loose power and so phone lines fail. So suppose lack of readings equates to power outage? I suppose if a local power outage i.e. DNO fuse ruptures then it can with internal batteries send a signal to tell the supplier the fuse has ruptured?

I must ask when mine is fitted, if fuse ruptures do they auto attend to renew it?

So still it seems smart means two way coms, and only reason for two way coms it the ability to turn off the supply, or have I got something wrong? And this was always my worry, that in error I would loose my supply.

 

[JohnW2]

I was under the impression that Octopus had already said sorry no smart meter we are not interested in your account?

That makes sense, doesn't it, given that many of the tariffs they offer are reliant on there being a smart meter ?

However, that's a practical/commercial issue, and is very different from trying to'force' an existing customer (who already has an account and supply) to have a smart meter fitted.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

We were forced to change supplier, old one went bust, it was auto taken over, but as to being forced, raising the non smart tariff will in real terms force the change.

 

[JohnW2]

We were forced to change supplier, old one went bust, it was auto taken over, but as to being forced, raising the non smart tariff will in real terms force the change.

Fair enough, but that is again a 'commercial issue'.

If, as is their prerogative, a supplier (of anything) decides to impose conditions for those wishing to enjoy lower price offers then, if one does not satisfy (or does not want to satisfy) those conditions, then one would (if sensible) be inclined to shop around for an alternative supplier.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Murdochcat]

We have become customers of Octopus because they bought the retail customers from Shell Energy

Be interesting to see if they try to insist on us having a SM