Smart Meters 'forced' on people?

[ericmark]

It does not need to be a smart meter, my own house does not have it's own electric meter, it is in a flat also owned by me, but it means I can't rent it out, which suits me, I would prefer the two dwellings to be counted as one. Which really they are, same boiler, same electricial supply, but since no internal connection between the two, I need to go outside to move from house to flat, which is why the local authority consider then independent dwellings.

And in the winter with ice on the floor no way am I going down the outside steps.

Since I pay with direct debit it does not matter, but if I had a pre payment meter it would cause a problem.

And the rerection of this thread is more about access to meters, not if they are smart or not, and my mother was the same where the meters were under the stairs, and as an amputee she could not access the meters her self.

With a meter reader he can read meters not accessible by the infirm, however should he be injured not sure who would be responsible.

We tell the meter reader to use South steps, with handrail, but he often uses the North steps, which are wood and can be slippy.

Bit who decides where a meter is located? I know today we boxes outside the house, but it is building regulations not electric or gas, and really any item needing to be read should be at the required height, meaning many boxes are too low.

But I can't seen the DNA remounting there meters higher.

 

[SimonH2]

Saw this article today:

Woman without central heating left sleeping on sofa next to fire

'I have no heating, no hot water, nothing.'

www.walesonline.co.uk

Hmm, that's clearly a case of administrative ineptitude in switching to credit mode rather than the "disconnected in error" scenario some of us are concerned about. Without more details, it looks a little like "the system" has it down as credit mode so no longer permits top-ups, but the meter is still in pre-pay mode and has simply run out of credit and disconnected automatically. I suspect the same could happen with dumb meters if they flag the pre-pay meter as "not in use" before swapping it for the credit meter - or switching modes if it's a non-smart but dual mode meter.

We've been away for a few days with some friends, a total of 4 couples, and the topic of smart meters arose. Amongst the group of 8 people we heard tales of remote disconnexion and 2 of those were due to non payment where direct debits had not been collected, even worse neither reckoned any notification had been sent but provider(s) simply directed customer to T&C's. Apparently there was a washing machine in mid cycle which needed power to unlock the door and part cooked food in the oven for one. We didn't get to the bottom of the third.
However all reportsseemed to point to long delays of days and possibly pointing to weeks to get power restored.

And I think that's proof enough of the dangers of the remote disconnection facility. At least with the old system of having to come to your house (with a warrant, a policeman, a dog handler, and a meter fitter), there's a few more stages where a human can spot the error and block it.

If all of that is true (and I have no reason to form an opinion either way) it seems the energy conpanies concerned are quickly jumping on the band wagon to disconnect remotely.

Was there ever any doubt that they would ?

One of those present claims the meter was forced on him due to suspected faulty meter (they tend to travel Europe for 2 to 4 months during the winter in their motorhome). He has built a removable metal box round the meter to prevent it happening and has had 2 visits to replace the smart meter so far, he doesn't know if that's due to the box or their absences.

They still can't (AFAIK) force a smart meter on you - just put your foot down and tell them, dumb meter or no meter change. The "dumb" meters are cheaper to them anyway.

I have to admit, I've been thinking that if we do get to the stage where they are "no longer optional", then a locked metal box, with RF gaskets, will be required. Could be an interesting conversation with the meter fitter

 

[SUNRAY]

They still can't (AFAIK) force a smart meter on you - just put your foot down and tell them, dumb meter or no meter change. The "dumb" meters are cheaper to them anyway.

They can force a meter change and if you refuse to accept their replacement they can and I suspect will still go through the hoops of legalese to do so. I haven't read T&Cs recently but I imagine it will contain something like 'equipment of our choice'. The alternative to total refusal is of course no meter and therefore no service.

As to rights of access, gas suppliers have equal rights (due to gas safety) to custom and excise which is greater than police.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Smart meters are a Government directive which the suppliers have to follow and meet set targets.

Do not blame the suppliers.

 

[JohnW2]

They still can't (AFAIK) force a smart meter on you - just put your foot down and tell them, dumb meter or no meter change.

As I often say, I'm by no means sure that is the case. Although I can't find it, I'm pretty sure that my contract ('Service Agreement') with my supplier gives them the right (implicitly with my consent, if I am deemed to have accepted the contract) to install whatever equipment they see fit in relation to provision of my supply.

In any event, as I also often say, I certainly don't think anything can stop them only offering most tariffs (probably other than 'standard variable rate') to people who have, or are prepared to have, 'smart meters'. That's probably not much of an issue at present, since almost everyone is now on the ('capped') 'standard variable rate' but once the current dust has settled, it could well be that the only tariffs available to people without 'smart' meters will be much more expensive than the alternatives (for people with 'smart' meters).

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Smart meters are a Government directive which the suppliers have to follow and meet set targets.

Do not blame the suppliers.

That is most certainly true and if it seems I'm blaming the suppliers I do understand their issues with the directive.

 

[JP_]

I wonder how the energy companies feel about this.
Being told to install smart meters, then make loads of meter readers redundant, so they can then report bigger profits to the shareholders, many of who are in government ...

 

[ericmark]

I read on facebook again and again how people have asked for a smart meter, but they will not work once fitted, until they can get them to work in all homes, can't see how one could be penalised for not having one?

I don't want one in case it is switched off in error, I have no problem with the being able to read the meter remotely, I had this given to me by Scottish Power many years ago, the batteries leaked and wrecked it, but until then it worked well the so call estimated readings were worked out by the internet connection to this current transformer, and were within £10 a year of actually meter readings. Which is really close enough, it came with a display so could see from living room how much I was using, I have considered one of these which is the modern version of above, but they are £40 and can't really see how knowing what I am using in total really helps? These

do a better job, as more interested in what a single item uses than what the whole house uses.

However all above is electric, and what we are looking at is gas, with post #73, I tried to get a gas smart meter fitted at my mothers house, gas only supplied one item, the central heating boiler, which could modulate, so fact it was running did not tell you if at 9 kW or 28 kW or where in-between, so thought looking on PC and seeing gas being used in real time would help.

However they would not fit one, seems you need both gas and electric from same supplier to have a gas one fitted, and it seems they only update every ½ hour or so, which is rather useless, I wanted to know if boiler was modulating and if so by how much, and with a ½ hour reading you could not see if cycling or modulating so rather useless anyway.

I can easy see how much electric I am using these work well, OK picture showing measuring volts, but easy to see how much any appliance is using, what I wanted was same idea with gas, does not matter now using oil.

The oil boiler is easy, it does not modulate so if running using 18 kW. But the report #73 says she still had electric, and although a fan heater to heat whole house is expensive, moving one around room to room is easy enough, cooking more of a problem, but still not that hard to use electric, I rarely use my hob, and oven, I use a microwave for most meals, and with all the appliances from pressure cooker to kettle being plug in electric, there would be a huge problem with no electric and just gas, but not really no gas only electric.

Inconvenient yes, and should not happen, and it does raise the question be it a coin meter or smart meter of the dangers when a meter is auto switched on.

My late father-in-law had a smart meter fitted which caused the heating not to work after, and we tend to forget some people miss the silly things, all it took was to relight the pilot flame, I would have expected the guy who fitted it to have checked, but he didn't.

In fact it lead to realising his solar panels were not working, swapped in summer, and he ended up with no domestic hot water, turned on the immersion heater, then went to see if tank getting hot, only to find no immersion heater fitted, just a new bung, the immersion heater switch clearly marked immersion heater in fact worked the solar panels pumps, thinking the panels were air locked due to being switched off, we had an installer re-commission the system, it got tank a little warmer than incoming supply, but very little, seems it had never worked, but since the immersion heater had been removed, and DHW now heated with the gas boiler, he saw the electric bill drop, so thought panels were saving him money.

Had the meter changer relit the boiler we would have never known the solar panels were rubbish.

 

[JP_]

My meters are easy to read, both by the front door. If I get to a point that I can't read my own meters, I'm going to need more help than just a smart meter. A carer will have to act as meter reader too!

 

[ericmark]

My meters are easy to read, both by the front door. If I get to a point that I can't read my own meters, I'm going to need more help than just a smart meter. A carer will have to act as meter reader too!

You make a good point, we all tend to look at our own homes, and meters can be inside the home, outside the home, and even in a different home.

I have watched the wheel turn around when younger, but never really tried to work out how much power I am using using the main meter, this

is not easy to use to see power being used, one needs a watch and time how fast the numbers move, at least with the electric meter one can see speed of dial.

New electric meters are just as bad you need a watch to work out what you are using, only real way is the ammeter, spot the error, well not really an error I was actually measuring the earth leakage, but using a add on meter is the only way to really see today what you are using, the modern display does not really help.

Even using clamp-on meters one does not know how accurate. Was it 2.31 or 2.50 amp, likely 2.5 amp as the jaws were stiff on the yellow meter, and the red and black one was brand new, it was my new toy so playing with it.

I was in the process of working out how much the boiler used, to see if I could run it off a battery or small generator.

 

[JP_]

But why do that? If you need to save money, you have to turn things off, dial it down etc. You don't need a smart meter to do that. My thermostats are pretty smart!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Bit who decides where a meter is located? I know today we boxes outside the house, but it is building regulations not electric or gas, and really any item needing to be read should be at the required height, meaning many boxes are too low.

But I can't seen the DNA remounting there meters higher.

My two are co-located, alongside my drive, both at the same height - a perfect back breaking height when you stoop down to read them. They are a good height for sitting down to work on them. I do already have a problem back, so rather than bend awkwardly to read them, I open the door and splay my legs wide to reduce my height whilst reading them - I don't know what neighbours might think of my antics on a Sunday morning

 

[johnny2007]

I don't have smart meters, but somehow the energy company knows exactly my readings.
In some ways they can access the details of even standard meters.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Even using clamp-on meters one does not know how accurate. Was it 2.31 or 2.50 amp, likely 2.5 amp as the jaws were stiff on the yellow meter, and the red and black one was brand new, it was my new toy so playing with it.

I was in the process of working out how much the boiler used, to see if I could run it off a battery or small generator.

My IHD shows me precisely, down to 1 watt what I am consuming, and updated every few seconds. What the IHD shows, is exactly what I will have to pay.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But why do that? If you need to save money, you have to turn things off, dial it down etc. You don't need a smart meter to do that. My thermostats are pretty smart!

True, but it helps considerably if you know what is using power and how much. Most people are pretty clueless as to where there consumption of power has gone and on many things it's pointless reading the Maximum Consumption on the label. Electric ovens for instance, switch on and off in use. Your vac might need 500w, but how long do you have it running?

Your electric shower 10Kw, but again how long do you spend taking the shower? Mine doesn't even use it's rated 9.5Kw, it varies the power input, to match the temperature you dial in.