Smart Meters 'forced' on people?

[JohnW2]

I'm not actually dead against such management, though personally I prefer the approach of managing supply in a way that the government hasn't done for the last several decades

Sure, but if we accept that nothing (big enough) is going to happen to the supply side of the equation any time soon, 'demand management' is surely the only option ... so I have to ask again, if you don;t like the smart-meter-approach to that management, what would you prefer/propose as an alternative?

The issues I have are the excessive and unnecessary data slurp, and the utter dishonesty with which they are being marketed. And of course, the complete and utter stupidity (and hence cost) of installing meters as fast as possible that are KNOWN to not be compatible with the integrated network.

I agree with all that, but that's a different matter, and a matter which does not affect the need for some means of managing demand in the future.

Have you ever seen anything aimed at the non technical user that mentions variable pricing ? Have you seen anything that mentions the data collected ? Have you seen anything that mentions the remote disconnect ? Have you seen anything about the ability to remotely switch to prepay if the supplier thinks you owe them too much money ? I haven't seen any mention of those, and without them the current sales pitch is completely and deliberately dishonest.

Perhaps not as part of the 'sales pitches', but I have seen mentions (true or false) of the fact that suppliers have agreed not to use remote connection/disconnection and of the ability to switch backwards and forwards to prepay ... and, although nothing to do with the suppliers, the effect of GDPR on them is presumably going to have a substantial impact on the matter of 'the data collected'.

However, again, although there are plenty of potential grievances about the provision of information, none of this alters the need for a means of 'demand management'

Kind Regards, John

 

[ironsidebod]

I'm certainly not in the group a certain individual suggests e.g. old and a technophobe. I'm a Software Engineer....you can probably guess why I don't like smart meters

I don't trust any public body with IT systems, let alone greedy energy companies. That said it seems that those of us being cautious and calling the companies to account to ensure we don't get taken for an expensive ride are called out as paranoid. I'm also a privacy advocate, but you get "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" trotted out at every given opportunity by those who miss the point by a country mile. I've seen the same happening in this thread by the smart meter advocates, ignoring (for whatever reason) the facts presented and the many things pointed out that are on the "could" list is a reason to take them seriously and raise concerns. There's a lot of fingers in ears "blah blah" going on...reminds me of the following, seems rather apt don't you think?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller

 

[JohnW2]

I've seen the same happening in this thread by the smart meter advocates, ignoring (for whatever reason) the facts presented and the many things pointed out that are on the "could" list is a reason to take them seriously and raise concerns.

I think there's only been one "smart meter advocate" in this thread hasn't there.

If you are counting me, I don't think you really should. Although I think that some people are presenting the "could list" in what I believe is probably an unnecessarily 'scaremongering' fashion, I do accept and understand many of the possibilities and concerns. However, as I've recently said, I also do recognise that we probably will need an effective means of 'demand management' in the foreseeable future - so, unless and until someone can propose a way of achieving that in a manner that would evoke fewer or lesser concerns than do 'smart' meters, I feel/fear that we are probably stuck with that one option.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ironsidebod]

I think there's only been one "smart meter advocate" in this thread hasn't there.

If you are counting me, I don't think you really should. Although I think that some people are presenting the "could list" in what I believe is probably an unnecessarily 'scaremongering' fashion, I do accept and understand many of the possibilities and concerns. However, as I've recently said, I also do recognise that we probably will need an effective means of 'demand management' in the foreseeable future - so, unless and until someone can propose a way of achieving that in a manner that would evoke fewer or lesser concerns than do 'smart' meters, I feel/fear that we are probably stuck with that one option.

Kind Regards, John

No I wasn't counting you I don't count cautious optimism as advocacy, some of us are way more cynical though!!

 

[JohnW2]

No I wasn't counting you I don't count cautious optimism as advocacy, some of us are way more cynical though!!

I'm pleased to hear that. In that case, as I said, I think we've only seen one "smart meter advocate" in this thread - I think the rest of us have been either "cautiously optimistic" or unashamedly pessimistic

The slightly unusual thing is that the one 'advocate' was seemingly very strong and passionate in his view - something more usually seen in the strongly 'anti' brigade.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sure, but if we accept that nothing (big enough) is going to happen to the supply side of the equation any time soon, 'demand management' is surely the only option ... so I have to ask again, if you don;t like the smart-meter-approach to that management, what would you prefer/propose as an alternative?

Banning electric cars.

Banning electric heaters used outdoors.

Banning hot air curtains.

Banning Shurgard from having a lighthouse on each of their sheds.

Banning people from lighting up their shrubberies at night.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Although I think that some people are presenting the "could list" in what I believe is probably an unnecessarily 'scaremongering' fashion, I do accept and understand many of the possibilities and concerns.

Did you read the bit in that Cambridge paper about attacks on electricity transmission and distribution having been a standard US tactic in wars from Serbia
to Iraq?

I'm not saying that even President Fart would do that to us, but given the ways that Russia are (for reasons that make perfect sense to them) clearly using IT-based "attacks" to destabilise nations and organisations who they perceive as hostile, given that it is likely that North Korea was behind the recent Wannacry attack, do you really think that warning of the risks of creating a fully connected, world-wide accessible, and totally insecure network of off-switches in homes, businesses, hospitals, factories, government facilities etc is unnecessarily scaremongering?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The slightly unusual thing is that the one 'advocate' was seemingly very strong and passionate in his view

He may be shouting so as to drown out the voices of caution in his own head.

 

[empip]

I think 'Blackrock' now have a major stake in data services to our energy suppliers...

G4S UTILITY SERVICES ANNOUNCES AGREEMENT TO BE ACQUIRED BY HOLDING GROUP OF FIRST RESERVE 28th December 2016
https://www.morrisonus.com/latest-n...e-acquired-by-holding-group-of-first-reserve/

BlackRock Acquires Energy Infrastructure Franchise from First Reserve February 01, 2017
https://www.firstreserve.com/news-a...y-infrastructure-franchise-from-first-reserve

This Asset Software Has More Power Than the U.S. Government Right Now
http://blackbag.gawker.com/this-asset-software-has-more-power-than-the-u-s-gover-1626401486

Try getting a meter reading validated - The reading, not the meter calibration.

My suggestion, if changing supplier... Give meter readings to both old and new at the same time - take good photographs of the meter(s).
" The Photo should clearly display the Meter Serial number and meter reading. Please also include in your email, the date that the photo was taken."
Of course if one does the biz via their web site - expect the figures to disappear at some stage.

I have 11 yrs of documented self readings on a monthly basis.
My last supplier (2.5 yrs) were always a fair heft out on their prediction for my next yrs usage... Apparently it is their data agents - who 'validate' readings based upon historic data for the property - 23 odd years for me - at least one gas meter roll over (back to zeros) Guess they couldn't handle a forward reading being less than the previous one. Who in hell agreed to 2 yr meter reading visits ??
If they cannot handle simple meters and the readings god help us when it becomes complex via 'smart' meters... We are being set up for another treasure Island style rip.

-0-

 

[JohnW2]

My last supplier (2.5 yrs) were always a fair heft out on their prediction for my next yrs usage... Apparently it is their data agents - who 'validate' readings based upon historic data for the property - 23 odd years for me - at least one gas meter roll over (back to zeros) Guess they couldn't handle a forward reading being less than the previous one.

Supplier's clearly vary. My (electricity only) supplier estimate the next year's usage as being exactly the same as the previous year, based on whatever readings (actual or estimates) they have, and if I supply them with a reading any time, they update their estimates immediately, 'trusting' my reading. Their system has also coped satisfactorily with a meter change (hence 'roll back' to zero reading) during the last year.

Who in hell agreed to 2 yr meter reading visits ??

If they have been getting fairly regular 'consumer readings' and, over the years, have found those to be consistent with their own (occasional) readings, then I suppose they only have to 'check' pretty infrequently, just to make sure that the consumer has not started giving false/inaccurate readings. I imagine that they probably read meters themselves appreciably more frequently during the initial years of new occupancy.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JP_]

A smart meter would be one that sends you a message says "looks like you left the oven on, shall I turn it off for you?".
I had one, unplugged it. Waste of time.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I had one, unplugged it.

It wasn't a smart meter.

 

[securespark]

Saw this article today:

Woman without central heating left sleeping on sofa next to fire

'I have no heating, no hot water, nothing.'

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[SUNRAY]

We've been away for a few days with some friends, a total of 4 couples, and the topic of smart meters arose. Amongst the group of 8 people we heard tales of remote disconnexion and 2 of those were due to non payment where direct debits had not been collected, even worse neither reckoned any notification had been sent but provider(s) simply directed customer to T&C's. Apparently there was a washing machine in mid cycle which needed power to unlock the door and part cooked food in the oven for one. We didn't get to the bottom of the third.
However all reportsseemed to point to long delays of days and possibly pointing to weeks to get power restored.

If all of that is true (and I have no reason to form an opinion either way) it seems the energy conpanies concerned are quickly jumping on the band wagon to disconnect remotely.

One of those present claims the meter was forced on him due to suspected faulty meter (they tend to travel Europe for 2 to 4 months during the winter in their motorhome). He has built a removable metal box round the meter to prevent it happening and has had 2 visits to replace the smart meter so far, he doesn't know if that's due to the box or their absences.

 

[JP_]

It's just about automation, which means lower costs and more profit. They are not intended to help customers in any way.