Someone is trying to start a war in the Ukraine, It's NOT Russia (edit: yes it is)

OddsBodkin said:
I wish Zelensky would stop banging on about Genocide. It's nothing of the kind
Click to expand...

Putin wants Ukraine for Russia, and that means killing everybody that opposes Russian rule, which is most Ukrainians not already living in Russian controlled areas.

If that isn't genocide, I am not sure what is.

Blowing up maternity hospitals, playschools, schools and homes and is a clear sign that they want to eradicate Ukrainians.

They expect it to got the way of Chechnya - after years of bombardment and slaughter they will eventually take full control of the country and quell any attempts at future uprisings. This will be achieved by effectively keeping Ukranians as prisoners in their own homes and running a police state. They will suppress the media to ensure that Ukranians lose contact with the outside world and only get Russian propaganda.

This is the plan, and this will happen if Putin is not stopped.
 
Sponsored Links
THFC said:
That's probably why he's using the 'nuclear' threat to keep them at bay.
Click to expand...

The nuclear threat keeps all at bay. Both ways. MAD stands for mutually assured destruction. Not just ICBM's now either for some parts of the world. Throw in cruse missiles as well. Max range of those varies. Then there are submarines.

Multiple war heads have figured for a long time now making it possible to carpet bomb large areas. :eek: It seems to be a better option than single huge bombs with more chance of them getting through.
 
There has been secretary of state talks, Ukraine and Russia in Turkey. Closed doors so no meaningful info.

The large bomb and hospital. 17 casualties and 3 dead. Bomb very probably easily capable of demolishing a block there.
 
Sponsored Links
ajohn said:
A false flag operation of course. Or something else or .............................
Click to expand...

well that is the issue / concern

they can deny it like that Syrian caper

what will nato do ? Would this be a red line ?
 
JP_ said:
Putin wants Ukraine for Russia, and that means killing everybody that opposes Russian rule, which is most Ukrainians not already living in Russian controlled areas.

If that isn't genocide, I am not sure what is.

Blowing up maternity hospitals, playschools, schools and homes and is a clear sign that they want to eradicate Ukrainians.

This is the plan, and this will happen if Putin is not stopped.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that genocide is the Russian aim in this war and if you're unsure what the term genocide implies i refer you to the UN definition:
United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect
Blowing up any hospital is abhorrent and should be condemned, despite Russian claims of enemy fighters using the building to snipe from windows - but from a military perspective it denies the enemy resources to heal its troops and send them back into combat, so it makes a twisted kind of sense. War brings its own logic to bear on circumstances civilians like us are not used to and civilised norms become obscured in the path of its objectives.
Make no mistake, this is a fight to the death and Russia will use whatever means at its disposal to achieve victory. War, red in tooth and claw, in all its gory glory, is no place for the fainthearted.
 
OddsBodkin said:
enemy fighters using the building to snipe from windows - but from a military perspective it denies the enemy resources to heal its troops and send them back into combat, so it makes a twisted kind of sense
Click to expand...

It was a maternity hospital. Not for injured soldiers, but for women giving birth and babies.

As for definition of genecide, that link states:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
  1. Killing members of the group;
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Hard to see how that is not genocide.

I am not saying their entire invasion is for the purposes of genocide, but some of their actions certainly are, as defined by the UN.

As for the argument that the hospital had snipers on the roof, that might well be true. If I was in charge of a hospital in a war zone, I'd certainly try to protect it. That doesn't it make is right to bomb it, unless you are committing genocide.
 
JP_ said:
It was a maternity hospital. Not for injured soldiers, but for women giving birth and babies.

As for definition of genecide, that link states:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
  1. Killing members of the group;
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Hard to see how that is not genocide.

I am not saying their entire invasion is for the purposes of genocide, but some of their actions certainly are, as defined by the UN.

As for the argument that the hospital had snipers on the roof, that might well be true. If I was in charge of a hospital in a war zone, I'd certainly try to protect it. That doesn't it make is right to bomb it, unless you are committing genocide.
Click to expand...

I agree with the sentiments of your post but i still believe genocide is a hard sell for the Ukrainian government to make at this early stage of the conflict.
A hospital is still full of medical supplies and personnel who could help enemy troops, regardless of their designation. You could argue it was an act of genocide based on point four of the designated articles for the definition of genocide but Russian claims they did not know it was used for such a purpose will credibly deny any accusation of genocide in this instance.
And they can, and do, claim Russians were subjected to discrimination and ethnic cleansing in the Donbas region, leading them to invade in the first place.
 
Let's agree to disagree on this one. Just been watching Pole To Pole - a Ukrainian talking in 1992 about dream of recovering Ukraine's history and culture again. 75 years of Soviet rule eradicated their culture, their history, and tried to eradicate their language. Language is one of the things Putin is still talking about - he objects to Ukrainians wanting to teach children Ukrainian.

"Although nobody knows for certain, it appears Putin is seeking to make all or portions of Ukraine once again part of Russia."
https://theconversation.com/long-be...er-struggle-was-playing-out-in-ukraine-178247

 
mitch66 said:
That is so true. Disposable as in numbers and disposable as in Putin is a such a C*unt anyone/anything is disposable.
Click to expand...

The difference in fighting will of the two sides is maybe what's slowing the Red Army's advance and making things difficult for them. Have to ask ourselves what a Ukranian is fighting for, what his motivation is. Then ask the same question of Putin's 18 year old conscripts. The Ukranians are fighting like lions (men, women, old, young), and put our spoilt, over indulged mollycoddled society to shame. I only hope they are getting all the support in arms, etc they really need.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Sponsored Links
Back
Top