Stock market dealing
- Thread starter Justin Passing
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Well you came up with someting like that, implying there was "THE" index when there are thousands, and being wrong.
08/08/2024 | USD/JPY | -£106.00 | 14606.3 | 14712.3 | -1 | 2024-08-08T15:20:43 | 2024-08-08T11:33:57 |
08/08/2024 | Marathon Digital Holdings Inc (All Sessions) | -£134.24 | 1637.5 | 1654.28 | -8 | 2024-08-08T14:26:48 | 2024-08-08T14:24:13 |
My stoploss on Marathon wasn't very smart. The problem is, everyone says you must have one, but where do you put it?
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Pretty poor day for everyone I think. There was a killing on the LLY early rise, but not many decent runs after that..
Yes stop losses can be costly. But if you have them tight you don't lose much in one hit unless there's a huge gap.
It's the Charlie Munger thing 2 rules :
1) don't lose money
2) keep to rule #1.
I had one of those huge gaps failry recently in China stock which had been ripping. I bought quite a big lump and put the SL 20% under it. The pulse down was just enough to catch it my stop, before the price went straight back up. I think it cost £10k. They can be called "technical" sales or something like that, where the broker or the exchange or someone puts in a stop-loss breaker and makes themselves a ton of money. That's illegal but it's widely recognised.. Happens a lot around strong levels.
My broker puts in a lot of small ones. They always plead ignorance but it's obvious.
Where to put yours?- two answers I suppose; at previous resistance, or at a point beyond which you would be losing too much if it all went wrong.
The other half of the question is how wide to make the limit. If it's too tight , you can be thinking you're safe but the sale never happened and the price carries on down. T212's price warnings are only partly-good. You need yellow and red alerts!
Having stop-losses active at market open is asking for them to be tripped of course. You have to BE THERE*
At the same time, if you've done your homework you have a catalyst, you look at "everything" and it's telling you the pressure is still pushing, then you decide what range of price you expect during the rise (cf Bollinger bands) and it make sense to hold on. It depends how liquid it is and your platform response time. Looking at TTV's charts when they show them close enough, their candles often move 5 times as often as mine, so they can see many waves within the 1 minute candles. On Tradingview there are 1 second candles. If the spread is tight, you can be in and out very frequently and do a lot better.
Have you see the bots playng the FX markets? The one I saw was buying or selling between once and twice per second.
I need a better platform, but the devil you know can be better. Mine is showing far too many bugs now and they're dishonest. They tell you a problem is just on your pc, but it's on 3 different browsers and it's a cloud app.....
TradingView is no better. Half the planet complains about their fuzzy screens but they always want multiple screen shots.
I'll be having a go with Pepperstone. They can use MT4 or MT5 or cTrader. Not sure of the differences yet. There may be fees I haven't discovered which could make them non-viable. Capital Markets have stopped taking new users - that's curious?
T212 is fair for some things, awful for others.
I'd like to stick to trading in ISAs so there's no need to report anything. That limits the options on shorting etc,, and you never find all the platform detail until you try sometiung and hit one.
The whole market's a bit of a bugger with investments at the moment. I had some in UK small caps, which weren't doing much but were ok, then the dip day hit, it dropped 8%, and I thought I had to sell, or it could have gone on to drop another 25% or something in the next couple of days and it takes too long to catch it. The price has started to recover of course so it woulda shoulda coulda been better to leave it. One never gets those things right.
I was already almost all in bonds etc, but those things happen to anything you leave exposed.
One by definition almost, can't get it right. You always should have moved earlier or later and with different amount.
If you'd bought the S&P500 in April you'd have been under water 6% or so about now. Not good in 4 months.
I have solid amounts in UK builders, waiting for an announcement of Labour's plans going in to effect. They dropped a lot, but I'm holding on. Part way back now
Jumbo in the room has to be the upcoming NVIDIA results, Aug 18th I think.. TSMC was huge so they surely will follow. Unlesss......!
Some folk never hold through results, only trading the after effects. Danielle Shay has found that if the move is 5% or less, it'll revert to what it was. If it's 10% or more, it'll keep going.
Others advise to wait 3 days, by which time the feeling will be settled and then trend in the direction of the move for a fair time. What she does is trade the rise into results if they're expected to be good (2 weeks) then sell just before results. The actual shift doesn't have much logic sometimes. Huge beat with one adverse comment and the thing tanks. So then she'd buy it while the market corrects the over-reaction.
*For short term trading, I have too many names to watch. They need watching so much. I think they'll all do ok eventually but I'd be better off with a handful, from which only a couple get used at a time. One good thing about T212 is that you can have any number of watch lists, so you can easily check a subset. Multiple displays are a pita though.
Usually NVDA, MARA, Q's, Soxl or one of two from the top 10 would be enough.
Yes stop losses can be costly. But if you have them tight you don't lose much in one hit unless there's a huge gap.
It's the Charlie Munger thing 2 rules :
1) don't lose money
2) keep to rule #1.
I had one of those huge gaps failry recently in China stock which had been ripping. I bought quite a big lump and put the SL 20% under it. The pulse down was just enough to catch it my stop, before the price went straight back up. I think it cost £10k. They can be called "technical" sales or something like that, where the broker or the exchange or someone puts in a stop-loss breaker and makes themselves a ton of money. That's illegal but it's widely recognised.. Happens a lot around strong levels.
My broker puts in a lot of small ones. They always plead ignorance but it's obvious.
Where to put yours?- two answers I suppose; at previous resistance, or at a point beyond which you would be losing too much if it all went wrong.
The other half of the question is how wide to make the limit. If it's too tight , you can be thinking you're safe but the sale never happened and the price carries on down. T212's price warnings are only partly-good. You need yellow and red alerts!
Having stop-losses active at market open is asking for them to be tripped of course. You have to BE THERE*
At the same time, if you've done your homework you have a catalyst, you look at "everything" and it's telling you the pressure is still pushing, then you decide what range of price you expect during the rise (cf Bollinger bands) and it make sense to hold on. It depends how liquid it is and your platform response time. Looking at TTV's charts when they show them close enough, their candles often move 5 times as often as mine, so they can see many waves within the 1 minute candles. On Tradingview there are 1 second candles. If the spread is tight, you can be in and out very frequently and do a lot better.
Have you see the bots playng the FX markets? The one I saw was buying or selling between once and twice per second.
I need a better platform, but the devil you know can be better. Mine is showing far too many bugs now and they're dishonest. They tell you a problem is just on your pc, but it's on 3 different browsers and it's a cloud app.....
TradingView is no better. Half the planet complains about their fuzzy screens but they always want multiple screen shots.
I'll be having a go with Pepperstone. They can use MT4 or MT5 or cTrader. Not sure of the differences yet. There may be fees I haven't discovered which could make them non-viable. Capital Markets have stopped taking new users - that's curious?
T212 is fair for some things, awful for others.
I'd like to stick to trading in ISAs so there's no need to report anything. That limits the options on shorting etc,, and you never find all the platform detail until you try sometiung and hit one.
The whole market's a bit of a bugger with investments at the moment. I had some in UK small caps, which weren't doing much but were ok, then the dip day hit, it dropped 8%, and I thought I had to sell, or it could have gone on to drop another 25% or something in the next couple of days and it takes too long to catch it. The price has started to recover of course so it woulda shoulda coulda been better to leave it. One never gets those things right.
I was already almost all in bonds etc, but those things happen to anything you leave exposed.
One by definition almost, can't get it right. You always should have moved earlier or later and with different amount.
If you'd bought the S&P500 in April you'd have been under water 6% or so about now. Not good in 4 months.
I have solid amounts in UK builders, waiting for an announcement of Labour's plans going in to effect. They dropped a lot, but I'm holding on. Part way back now
Jumbo in the room has to be the upcoming NVIDIA results, Aug 18th I think.. TSMC was huge so they surely will follow. Unlesss......!
Some folk never hold through results, only trading the after effects. Danielle Shay has found that if the move is 5% or less, it'll revert to what it was. If it's 10% or more, it'll keep going.
Others advise to wait 3 days, by which time the feeling will be settled and then trend in the direction of the move for a fair time. What she does is trade the rise into results if they're expected to be good (2 weeks) then sell just before results. The actual shift doesn't have much logic sometimes. Huge beat with one adverse comment and the thing tanks. So then she'd buy it while the market corrects the over-reaction.
Looks like you're acting on "anticipation" which is a lottery. Wait for whatever is going to happen to happen, then trade off that. Win less, but generally it IS a win.
*For short term trading, I have too many names to watch. They need watching so much. I think they'll all do ok eventually but I'd be better off with a handful, from which only a couple get used at a time. One good thing about T212 is that you can have any number of watch lists, so you can easily check a subset. Multiple displays are a pita though.
Usually NVDA, MARA, Q's, Soxl or one of two from the top 10 would be enough.
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I had aquick look at that Mara trade of yours
You went short - it wasn't a downtrend. - wrong
That's the same old error.
The price rose hard just before, at the open and at 13:30 or so.. Indicating uptrend. Stop trying to catch it out!!
You reacted, I think " oh it's gone down I'll jump aboard and follow it down"?
That guarantees you a bad entry.
If it's an uptrend on your day chart then that would be a point to go LONG.
All wrong
If you kept watching , you could have got back in.
I joined that Mara. I was expecting a rise so ( I don't remember exactly) would have waited for it to show on the 5 minute unless it was clear in the one minute..
I went long at 15:28, and came out when the candle top wicks were predicting it would stop, twice. Look atthe 5 minute chart, there are 3 the same height at 16:00 and at 17:00 I left there, it was looking a bit sideways but if I'd only been watching Mara there was more to be had.
I didn't get back in exactly right each time I daresay, but I didn't go backwards.
5% on leverage is 25% so ok. Meta had been trending up all day so I move to that.
I expect you can see it now.
Same message - don't try to outsmart it, just follow what you see. Use higher timeframes to check.
Get back in once you realise what's going on.
And as I think I've exemplified - one name will do, most of the time. Thinking about it, Mara has paid me well.
You went short - it wasn't a downtrend. - wrong
That's the same old error.
The price rose hard just before, at the open and at 13:30 or so.. Indicating uptrend. Stop trying to catch it out!!
You reacted, I think " oh it's gone down I'll jump aboard and follow it down"?
That guarantees you a bad entry.
If it's an uptrend on your day chart then that would be a point to go LONG.
All wrong
If you kept watching , you could have got back in.
I joined that Mara. I was expecting a rise so ( I don't remember exactly) would have waited for it to show on the 5 minute unless it was clear in the one minute..
I went long at 15:28, and came out when the candle top wicks were predicting it would stop, twice. Look atthe 5 minute chart, there are 3 the same height at 16:00 and at 17:00 I left there, it was looking a bit sideways but if I'd only been watching Mara there was more to be had.
I didn't get back in exactly right each time I daresay, but I didn't go backwards.
5% on leverage is 25% so ok. Meta had been trending up all day so I move to that.
I expect you can see it now.
Same message - don't try to outsmart it, just follow what you see. Use higher timeframes to check.
Get back in once you realise what's going on.
And as I think I've exemplified - one name will do, most of the time. Thinking about it, Mara has paid me well.
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@Arbu
Looking ito Pepperstone more, on MT5. Their fees are low, I think, though maybe not quite low enough for the shaviest of scalps.
They specify things well, I can see why they're liked.
They have a number of features it's hard to get to the bottom of without trying them out.
There's an interesting "stop" option. They do CFD and SB. One thing with CFD, at T212 art least, is they there's not normally a lower limit problem for a stake. It was 0.1 TSLA, for example.
Looking ito Pepperstone more, on MT5. Their fees are low, I think, though maybe not quite low enough for the shaviest of scalps.
They specify things well, I can see why they're liked.
They have a number of features it's hard to get to the bottom of without trying them out.
There's an interesting "stop" option. They do CFD and SB. One thing with CFD, at T212 art least, is they there's not normally a lower limit problem for a stake. It was 0.1 TSLA, for example.
iirc I went short because Mara had gone down to vwap and looked like breaking through that. Plus bitcoin was making lower highs and was at a high on a trend. Plus jobs figures were good => less reason to cut rates => dollar stronger => bitcoin weaker. So I'll stop thinking that much. I'll just think "what's going on today?" And I won't look at anything until 14:50 because you can't tell what it's doing before then so what's the point?
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I only have a 5 mnute chart for gold there now,but it's adequate to show that at 14:04 there wasn't a downtrend.
Why did you enter there?
"Because I thought it might" go down? Will NEVER be good enough.
I've never seen much reason to buy gold. One might predict a long term trend, but it doesn't move very much usually. INstitutions buy it when they get out of the rest of the market because they have to be invested in something at all times.
Looks ;like you enter a guess and leave it for hours. Did you leave a stop-loss? WHat value of loss do you set it to? Do you get alerts on your phone?
Why did you enter there?
"Because I thought it might" go down? Will NEVER be good enough.
I've never seen much reason to buy gold. One might predict a long term trend, but it doesn't move very much usually. INstitutions buy it when they get out of the rest of the market because they have to be invested in something at all times.
Looks ;like you enter a guess and leave it for hours. Did you leave a stop-loss? WHat value of loss do you set it to? Do you get alerts on your phone?
Downtrend on the 3 minute chart on both the 20 and 50MA. Perhaps you'd like to give a more precise definition of what "the trend" is? Because there are always lots of moving averages which will show different trends.
Yes, I made my decision and left the two positions until a pre-decided time. It allowed me to get on with other things. I suppose I could have marked up the previous highs and lows of a number of charts, listened to tradertv, and watched the charts all afternoon. But I would have lost money that way too.
Attachments
The two that I posted about were quite successful. Shouldn't have got back in to nvidia though.
| TextDate | MarketName | ProfitAndLoss | Open level | Close level | Size | DateUtc | OpenDateUtc |
12/08/2024 | NVIDIA Corp (All Sessions) | -£153.60 | 11036 | 10882.4 | 1 | 2024-08-12T16:04:25 | 2024-08-12T15:08:07 |
12/08/2024 | Starbucks Corp | -£30.00 | 7787 | 7757 | 1 | 2024-08-12T15:28:15 | 2024-08-12T14:21:19 |
12/08/2024 | Meta Platforms Inc (All Sessions) | £209.50 | 51493 | 51074 | -0.5 | 2024-08-12T15:27:04 | 2024-08-12T14:08:34 |
12/08/2024 | Tesla Motors Inc (All Sessions) | -£48.00 | 19702 | 19798 | -0.5 | 2024-08-12T15:20:33 | 2024-08-12T14:31:32 |
12/08/2024 | PayPal Holdings Inc (All Sessions) | -£39.00 | 6440 | 6479 | -1 | 2024-08-12T15:04:32 | 2024-08-12T14:14:50 |
12/08/2024 | NVIDIA Corp (All Sessions) | £148.00 | 10752 | 10900 | 1 | 2024-08-12T14:11:24 | 2024-08-12T14:00:36 |
£86.90 |
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HIgher highs and lower lows, is an uptrend. Also zoom out and have a look on a higher timeframe. Obviously it has to be on the timeframe you're planning for. They're obvious. No trend, don't enter.
Presumably you can use trailing stop losses, or even just one stop loss from the starting position? Then you wouldn't have lost £400. Start small and watch and add if it helps, until your stoploss can be at break even. T212 has trailing SL's.
Today I watched Mara 10 mins while it dropped very fast, and it bounced up, then turned down again. Very common pattern. Went short for 6 odd %. Then people in the chat were saying SMCI so I jumped on that, about 4%. All over by 3:30.
Messy after that, going off levels, etc . Won on a few lost on a couple. Too much bother really.
Catena's back with his BS.
Last edited:
13/08/2024 | QUALCOMM Inc (All Sessions) | DFB | £86.50 | 16508 | 16681 | 0.5 | 2024-08-13T16:17:43 | 2024-08-13T14:09:02 |
13/08/2024 | Microsoft Corp (All Sessions) | DFB | £42.50 | 41184 | 41269 | 0.5 | 2024-08-13T15:37:04 | 2024-08-13T13:54:52 |
13/08/2024 | Uber Technologies Inc (All Sessions) | DFB | -£53.00 | 7004 | 6951 | 1 | 2024-08-13T15:01:35 | 2024-08-13T14:30:05 |
13/08/2024 | Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd - ADR (All Sessions) | DFB | -£61.50 | 16777 | 16900 | -0.5 | 2024-08-13T14:47:10 | 2024-08-13T13:51:48 |
£14.50 |
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