The Brexit Solution - Learning from History

[SammyInnit]

Nothing will change with foreign terrorists regarding boarders unless nobody is allowed in ever again. Am sorry to say. It is all down to intelligence gathering... Nobody arrives at our customs and declares that they are terrorists, so without intelligence it's going to be flipping hard to stop anyone when talking about boarders. You do know that everyone, including people from the EU or traveling from an EU country have to stop and show their passports/identity checked right? It's not like people can walk right in.

If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another.

The premise being if you are an EU national but it's contradictory because you don't have to prove it. This is the issue we see with boats arriving from Africa and landing at Italy/Greece - once they're on soil under EU Schengen jurisdiction they don't need a passport to move from one country to another.

The UK is fortunate enough to not be part of the Schengen area but that doesn't mean anyone in the EU could not illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

 

[ellal]

And you can not compare being killed by a terrorist to having a car accident!! Terrorism should be fought, don't trivialise.

Terrorism should of course be fought...
But equally against all the proponents, both individual and state sponsored!

But it seems that you have missed the point that I made in an answer as regards the relative risks...

How about the millions killed knowingly by tobacco companies?

Or the millions killed by alcohol producers?

Or the millions killed by car pollutants?

As I said, risk is relative - but certain events are played up out of proportion in order to persuade enough people to look away from the real dangers.
(and if this forum is anything to go by, very successfully it seems!)

 

[noseall]

that doesn't mean anyone in the EU could not illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK

The same ethos could apply to those wishing to enter the UK and by-pass the eurozone entirely.

 

[ellal]

The UK is fortunate enough to not be part of the Schengen area

Yeah, something the quitters fail to understand - we still have a border within the EU!

but that doesn't mean anyone in the EU could not illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK.

Care to tell us if that is any different from someone from a non-EU country having the ability to 'illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK'?

 

[SammyInnit]

Yeah, something the quitters fail to understand - we still have a border!

That still doesn't exclude anyone within the EU the right to reside and work in the UK. Saying "we still have a boarder" is about as useful as wiping your arse with wet tissue; all we have is a passport checkpoint.

You have a right to reside if you’re from the EEA or Switzerland and you’re either:

• employed
• self-employed
• registered as a jobseeker

You need comprehensive medical insurance for yourself and your family if you’re not working or looking for work (eg you’re studying or able to support yourself).

https://www.gov.uk/right-to-reside

Care to tell us if that is any different from someone from a non-EU country having the ability to 'illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK'?

I don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make. It's wrong regardless of where it's(or they're) from. Whataboutery doesn't exclude the point that it can happen.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think the point being made is that ISIS can afford plane tickets and false documents - if they want to enter Britain - they don't need to walk there with everyone else.

Not that they need to because of the brainwashed nutters born there.

 

[noseall]

I think the point being made is that ISIS can afford plane tickets and false documents - if they want to enter Britain - they don't need to walk there with everyone else

Correct.

 

[sodthisforfun]

The premise being if you are an EU national but it's contradictory because you don't have to prove it. This is the issue we see with boats arriving from Africa and landing at Italy/Greece - once they're on soil under EU Schengen jurisdiction they don't need a passport to move from one country to another.

The UK is fortunate enough to not be part of the Schengen area but that doesn't mean anyone in the EU could not illegitimately acquire the appropriate documents to enter the UK.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

Yes, they could illegitimately enter the UK, but then people always could, fake passports etc but they could do that from any country, they do not need to travel to an EU country in order to do so.
You talked about open borders, but we don't have an open border.

 

[ellal]

That still doesn't exclude anyone within the EU the right to reside and work in the UK. Saying "we still have a boarder" is about as useful as wiping your arse with wet tissue; all we have is a passport checkpoint.

Ah, so now it's about the 'right' to reside/work...

I thought you were worried about terrorists?

all we have is a passport checkpoint.

So what other border system do you imagine we'll have post brexit?

I don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make.

That is very obvious!

 

[JohnD]

That still doesn't exclude anyone within the EU the right to reside and work in the UK.

Why are you obsessed with EU citizens' right to work in other EU countries?

The majority of immigrants to UK come from China and India. Neither is in the UK.

The Russian assassins were not EU citizens.

The Omagh bombers did not use EU rights.

Your anti-EU obsession is leading you to say some strange things.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Terrorism should of course be fought...
But equally against all the proponents, both individual and state sponsored!

But it seems that you have missed the point that I made in an answer as regards the relative risks...

How about the millions killed knowingly by tobacco companies?

Or the millions killed by alcohol producers?

Or the millions killed by car pollutants?

As I said, risk is relative - but certain events are played up out of proportion in order to persuade enough people to look away from the real dangers.
(and if this forum is anything to go by, very successfully it seems!)

Real dangers? They are all real dangers and I think it's fair to say that people are aware of the dangers... We are constantly told not to drink too much, not to smoke, to keep our speed down and drive safe... No, I don't understand your comparison. A car accident, versus a deliberate act of terrorism.

I absolutely understand people's fears about terrorism. To downplay it is to do it a disservice.

 

[SammyInnit]

Ah, so now it's about the 'right' to reside/work...

Why are you obsessed with EU citizens' right to come here for work?

The majority of immigrants to UK come from China and India. Neither is in the UK.

The Russian assassins were not EU citizens.

The Omagh bombers did not use EU rights.

Your anti-EU obsession is leading you to say some strange things.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

The right to live and work is irrelevant, it's how the border system with the EU works that is relevant.

 

[noseall]

I don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make.

Actually sammi, no one understands what you are going on about. Your point is moot and ...er...pointless.
Trerrorists are not abetted by the freedom to move throughout Europe in their quest to terrorise the UK nor do they particularly need it as a vehicle to enter the UK.

 

[sodthisforfun]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

The right to live and work is irrelevant, it's how the border system with the EU works that is relevant.

But not within the UK.
We don't have open borders.

 

[SammyInnit]

But not within the UK.
We don't have open borders.

Well given that anyone (as I liked to) from the EEA has the right to come live and work in the UK, it's certainly anything but a closed border. You can't do that in the States for example.