Theresa's mercenaries getting itchy feet

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

What rules are they, as I said there has always been a common travel area between North and South and that will continue whether inside or outside the EU ,the only people who will be inconvenienced will be illegal immigrants and foreigners.

Illegal immigrants, and non-EU citizens would be checked at the RoI border.
However, EU citizens would have free entry into NI, and thus UK, if there is no border between RoI and NI, and none between NI - UK
Unless, of course, the UK beefs up border checks at the UK - NI border. But that will not stop EU citizens having free entry (and stay) in NI.

But as I said before, and as John mentions, it is not just about movement of people.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

No it did not

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

 

[Notch7]

Please point to where NI had a separate referendum

 

[vinty]

And smugglers and gangsters, of course.

But in order to identify and inconvenience these people and goods, there would have to be immigration and customs controls at the border.

So a controlled border, not an open one.

Which do you want? Pick one (only one).

Does the EU have open or controlled borders would you prefer the EU to have completely open borders so that any Tom Dick or Ali from the rest of the planet can enter the EU.
The answer to the border question lies with the Irish Republic ,if they do their job properly there will be no need for controls.
These days you can do all sorts of things electronically , you can book holidays , airline tickets, operate remote camera's from 1000's of miles away without even getting out of your chair.
The authorities still keep a close eye on the border for security purposes any checks they do are based on intelligence led information, they just don't stop people at random like they used to, so the border problem can be sorted if they really want to.

 

[vinty]

Illegal immigrants, and non-EU citizens would be checked at the RoI border.
However, EU citizens would have free entry into NI, and thus UK, if there is no border between RoI and NI, and none between NI - UK
Unless, of course, the UK beefs up border checks at the UK - NI border. But that will not stop EU citizens having free entry (and stay) in NI.

But as I said before, and as John mentions, it is not just about movement of people.

Why would EU citizens want to enter N.I. illegally after Brexit , unless they are registered they won't be able to work or apply for housing and health care ect. and if they want to get to the British mainland there are still anti terrorist security checks at the air and ferry ports.
If an EU citizen wanted to get into the UK after Brexit they could apply for Irish citizenship and if they get it they can then under the UK/ROI common travel area laws enter the UK and stay as long as they like, this is maybe something the government should look at after Brexit.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Please point to where NI had a separate referendum

Stop being so daft, and read my words:

NI also voted to remain in EU.

Only you mentioned a separate referendum, no-one else.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Does the EU have open or controlled borders would you prefer the EU to have completely open borders so that any Tom Dick or Ali from the rest of the planet can enter the EU.

The EU have controlled borders. Then there is relative freedom of movement (outside of the Schengen area) within the EU for EU citizens.

The answer to the border question lies with the Irish Republic ,if they do their job properly there will be no need for controls.

They already control their other borders, such as airports, and sea ports.

These days you can do all sorts of things electronically , you can book holidays , airline tickets, operate remote camera's from 1000's of miles away without even getting out of your chair.
The authorities still keep a close eye on the border for security purposes any checks they do are based on intelligence led information, they just don't stop people at random like they used to, so the border problem can be sorted if they really want to.

You cannot inspect a lorry load of goods for contraband from a camera positioned on the side of the road.
Nor can you verify that the goods originated where they were supposed to have.
Nor can you verify that they meet the required standards.
Nor can you verify that there are no stowaways/ pets/ criminals/ controlled substances, etc.

The intelligence-led stops and checks do not happen at the border.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Anyway, it looks like TM has reneged on the agreement made before Xmas:

On the Northern Irish border, Mrs May rejected suggestions the UK could decide alone not to impose a hard border with the Republic of Ireland: "It is not good enough to say 'we won't introduce a hard border; if the EU forces Ireland to do it, that's down to them'.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43250035
So, back to the drawing board.
Obviously the government has no plan, no solution (and never have had) to deal with the RoI/NI border.

 

[Notch7]

Only you mentioned a separate referendum, no-one else.

Oh, so there was only 1 referendum! What was the result?

You gave the impression Ireland voted in their own referendum

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Oh, so there was only 1 referendum! What was the result?

You gave the impression Ireland voted in their own referendum

I voted to remain, but the overall result of the UK was to leave.
Does that mean I voted to leave?

 

[motorbiking]

We seem to be confusing the customs union with the schengen Area. Its entirely possible to automate content checking to a greater degree than is done today. Companies are already experimenting with tech to do this, using IoT, blockchain and RFID scanners to match payload to axle weight.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

We seem to be confusing the customs union with the schengen Area. Its entirely possible to automate content checking to a greater degree than is done today. Companies are already experimenting with tech to do this, using IoT, blockchain and RFID scanners to match payload to axle weight.

I do not think so.
There are two different issues: the movement of people (Schengen) and the movement of goods (Customs Union).
Without a RoI/NI border EU citizens will have full access to NI. Not too much of a problem, as I see it. Proof of ID is required for UK/NI travel, so certain further border checks would prevent EU citizens with further access to UK. But that NI/UK border check might need further enhancement, for instance EU citizens that have traveled from Europe to Rosslare, Dublin or Cork and then driven to NI/UK ferries, or vice-versa. Their luggage also would need further, perhaps more intensive checks. This would happen on the NI/rUK border.

John has made the points about goods movement, and I have mentioned some examples of contraband, origin, standards, etc.

 

[Notch7]

I voted to remain, but the overall result of the UK was to leave.
Does that mean I voted to leave?

In the last general election you may have voted Lib Dem. Does that mean you should have Vince Cable as your own personal prime minister?

 

[motorbiking]

His cabinet could probably set up office in his front room, or car

 

[JohnD]

Does the EU have open or controlled borders

I suspect that you know the answer so that is a silly question.

The EU has open borders within the EU and from one EU country to another, except where a country has decided to limit it within certain limits. Currently UK is in the EU and people, goods, services and money move between the UK and other EU countries.

When the UK leaves the EU, this will no no longer be the case, and the UK has told the EU it does not want to have any of the available schemes giving open borders.

The UK has said that it wants controlled borders and it does not want free movement.

The UK has not yet agreed what these borders will do or where they will be.

But the current UK government has said it wants controlled borders. Perhaps one or both of these facts will change one day. Who knows?