White around here, Yorkshire, seemed to be what the YEB always used.
Two electricians telling me different things, confused and a bit concerned
- Thread starter TONY1966
- Start date
White around here, Yorkshire, seemed to be what the YEB always used.
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Indeed some areas seemed to prefer white whilst other preferred grey, in each case some deemed the none pref colours a DIY bodge. In both cases the 2.5/1.5 version was could be obtained in 2.5/1.0 version too.
Actually you could/can ask for non standard sizes but you would usually pay a premium so it`s usually case of asking for what ever happens to be regarded as "bog standard" flavour at the time.
If it ever becomes the norm to make earth (c.p.c) full size (as with 1.0 T & E) then at least the touch voltage during a fault might be expected to be 120v (115v if you prefer to think about it so) maximum in practical terms. Which could be an advantage sometimes.
Actually you could/can ask for non standard sizes but you would usually pay a premium so it`s usually case of asking for what ever happens to be regarded as "bog standard" flavour at the time.
If it ever becomes the norm to make earth (c.p.c) full size (as with 1.0 T & E) then at least the touch voltage during a fault might be expected to be 120v (115v if you prefer to think about it so) maximum in practical terms. Which could be an advantage sometimes.
True, but a pretty minor 'advantage', given that 115-120V is nowhere near the figure that would be regarded as even remotely 'safe'.
If one wanted thinking to go down that route, I suppose there would have to be a requirement for the CPC to have at least three times the CSA of the L conductor!
Kind Regards, John
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When using conduit and wiring sockets with singles, I always used 2.5 for all the conductors.
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I think many people do. However, as I just wrote, the benefit of (alone) having a 2.5mm² CPC (over 1.5mm²) is minimal, since the 'touch voltage' is then far too high to be 'safe'.
Having said that, if you're stalking about ('earthed') metal conduit then the effective CSA of the 'CPC' is going to be a lot greater than that of the CPC conductor, so perhaps even less reason to have a larger CPC?
Kind Regards, John
Yes John good point and of course enhanced perhaps by the inclusion of a RCD or three on circuits.
I go back to the days of the rewireable fuse therefore I have a tendency to favour earthing we can rely on. As I`ve mentioned previously I also favoured joining two or more earths for lighting circuits at some point in each of those circuits in order to add redundancy in case of a thin earthwire being snapped or to bring down the effective R2 value.
It all helps and the more of these contributions you can make makes it feel a little bit safer.
It`s not really that long ago (well not long ago in my working life anyway) that I was happy for circuit protection to be purely fusewire and not a RCD of some kind in sight.
Time moves on and I would not feel as comfortable with that set up today.
I go back to the days of the rewireable fuse therefore I have a tendency to favour earthing we can rely on. As I`ve mentioned previously I also favoured joining two or more earths for lighting circuits at some point in each of those circuits in order to add redundancy in case of a thin earthwire being snapped or to bring down the effective R2 value.
It all helps and the more of these contributions you can make makes it feel a little bit safer.
It`s not really that long ago (well not long ago in my working life anyway) that I was happy for circuit protection to be purely fusewire and not a RCD of some kind in sight.
Time moves on and I would not feel as comfortable with that set up today.
Going back to the "original" Post, I find it difficult to understand the "Business Practice" of an "Electrician" who would state that
"the insulation on pvc wiring lasts 25-40 years and its a fire hazard and needs immediate action."
Old VIR insulation could be deteriorating and become a "fire hazard", but that is most unlikely with PVC insulation.
(There were some problems with PVC Insulation about 30 years ago where some "plasticizers" in the PVC reacted with the copper conductor to produce a "Goo".
The resultant "Goo" was not really an electrical problem - just messy.
It could be "cleaned up" but replacing such wiring concerned might be considered - for aesthetic reasons only.)
Of course, you should have RCD/RCBO protection - on all circuits.
Not really an electrical problem, but the leaching of plasticiser isn't exactly going to prolong the life of the cable
At least when dealing with our HSE, di-isoctyl phthalate is considered toxic; contaminated material should be disposed of as controlled waste, and cleaned up, using appropriate PPE.
Indeed.
Very true. As you will be aware, I'm also a great believer in 'CPC redundancy', and regard that as one of the few 'benefits' of a ring final circuit (L&N 'redundancy' probably being more of a downside than an upside).
As for lighting circuits, although it would represent somewhat of a nightmare for subsequent testing, I suppose there would be something to be said for cross-connecting a lighting circuit's CPC with that of a nearby sockets (or even shower!) circuit!
Yes, times move o - but I have to say that, if I had a TN installation (which I don't), I wouldn't be particularly uncomfortable with that old situation of reliance on "fusewire and no RCD". I have no figures to support the belief, but I'm sure that people were not 'dying like flies' in those olden days.
TT installations obviously are (and always have been) more of a problem, in that, without RCDs, the nearest one could get to fault protection (and that somewhat 'flawed') was that provided by an VOELCB - so I would not be comfortable today with a TT installation without RCD protection.
Kind Regards, John
I have booked an electrician to do a condition report next week.
Little concerned at what i will be told as it may take some time to find the funding if i need extensive work but its got to be done at the end of the day. I cant take risks with my grandaughter in the house.
From what i have read on here, if it takes me 1-2 months to fix the actions required (due to finances) on the condition report this doesnt put me in any sort of legal issue?
FWIW only landlords have a time limit to get remedial work done
As the homeowner, you don’t have to do anything - you could opt to do nothing
My advice to you is be in the house when the inspection is being done so you know how long they are on site.
How many circuits and how many fuseboards do you have?
I would suggest that you try to take a pragmatic approach and 'be optimistic' for the time being, since you may well not need extensive/costly work done. You and we know that you need a new ('modern') CU, but that in itself would probably cost you not much more than, say, a Glastonbury ticket! Beyond that, given that it is 1977 or lter wiring, there may not be a lot that needs to be done.
Get the EICR done and show it to us (with 'personal details' removed, and we can tell you how reasonable it sounds, and the same for any quote for allegedly-required remedial work you may be given. If you/we "don't like" or disagree with the EICR, you can simply ignore it if you so wish.
It's pretty/very unlikley that an EICR will reveal any significant immediate dangers to your granddaughter (or anyone else) - no more than may have existed for the past 3 years or whatever.
As has been said, there is no legal obligation for a house owner to take any action, ever, as a result of findings of an EICR, per se.
At the extremes, if you had allowed your house to remain so 'dangerous' that it resulted in serious injury or death, that could obviously be a criminal offence, but that's not going tp be the case here. Insurance can be invalidated by failure to maintain things adequately but, again, that's not going to be the case.
So, I suggest you try to relax, have the EICR done and show it to us, together with any 'quotes', and we can then take it from there!
Kind Regards, John
To echo pretty much what others of just said.
If you are a landlord then yes you do have a time limit. If not then normal laws apply.
Any person must maintain there house, car, other possessions in a fit state to not cause harm to others and use them in a way so as not to cause harm to others.
Your insurers may insist upon how you keep and look after your insured possessions.
That`s true of everybody at all times.
In so far as your electrics is concerned then you want to keep things "safe" for you and others.
You are having an EICR and it may well reveal some defects. Very few properties have no defects.
Depending upon the severity of some defects the overall assessment is either satisfactory or unsatisfactory.
I you have any we class as C1 or C2 or FI you will get them correct as soon as possible including immediately if you are able to do so.
There is no specified time limit, as such, for you to undertake any corrections.
As has been said, ask on here to discuss those defects found and opinions will be given that might be of help to you.
Purely to add any credibility to what I have just stated.
I have been trading as a Electrician since October 1980.
I am now retired.
From its inception in 2005 of Part P to just about 5 years ago I was a member of one or one other competent person schemes.
I have held some relevant qualifications for a number of years.
Some electricians have consulted me as to what the regs say, over the years.
Indeed I have likewise consulted other electricians and electrical engineers and consultants over the years.
Over the years I have done a few hundred EICRs (also called PIRs until fairly recently).
If you are a landlord then yes you do have a time limit. If not then normal laws apply.
Any person must maintain there house, car, other possessions in a fit state to not cause harm to others and use them in a way so as not to cause harm to others.
Your insurers may insist upon how you keep and look after your insured possessions.
That`s true of everybody at all times.
In so far as your electrics is concerned then you want to keep things "safe" for you and others.
You are having an EICR and it may well reveal some defects. Very few properties have no defects.
Depending upon the severity of some defects the overall assessment is either satisfactory or unsatisfactory.
I you have any we class as C1 or C2 or FI you will get them correct as soon as possible including immediately if you are able to do so.
There is no specified time limit, as such, for you to undertake any corrections.
As has been said, ask on here to discuss those defects found and opinions will be given that might be of help to you.
Purely to add any credibility to what I have just stated.
I have been trading as a Electrician since October 1980.
I am now retired.
From its inception in 2005 of Part P to just about 5 years ago I was a member of one or one other competent person schemes.
I have held some relevant qualifications for a number of years.
Some electricians have consulted me as to what the regs say, over the years.
Indeed I have likewise consulted other electricians and electrical engineers and consultants over the years.
Over the years I have done a few hundred EICRs (also called PIRs until fairly recently).
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I didnt update this, the second electrician identified a socket that needed to be replaced and a problem with the wiring that leads to the outside light which we got fixed.
He fitted a new consumer unit with 'rcbo' on every circuit and with surge protection on the consumer unit (the fuses all have '30ma' on them)
He also split things up somehow, whereas previously the utility room and kitchen sockets were on the same fuse for example they are now on separate rcbos. He has also given me documentation for the work.
I still need to get someone to look at the insulation in the ceiling to see if it is polystyrene but that will be in the new year and i do feel happier having rcbos (i think thats rcd+mcb) and surge protection
Thanks all.
He fitted a new consumer unit with 'rcbo' on every circuit and with surge protection on the consumer unit (the fuses all have '30ma' on them)
He also split things up somehow, whereas previously the utility room and kitchen sockets were on the same fuse for example they are now on separate rcbos. He has also given me documentation for the work.
I still need to get someone to look at the insulation in the ceiling to see if it is polystyrene but that will be in the new year and i do feel happier having rcbos (i think thats rcd+mcb) and surge protection
Thanks all.
Where exactly in the regs does it say a domestic dwelling needs an AFDD?
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