Ukraine counter offensive

[diy_fun_uk]

What's your opinion on the reference in the media to the nuclear threat and from the man himself? If it actually got to the stage of Putin saying to his generals 'time to press the button' and meaning it, do you think at that point he would be relieved of his position, mysteriously disappear, or do you think they would follow through on his command?

Part of me wonders if there's already a plan in place if he were to cross a certain line, because surely the commencement of nuclear warfare would be equally if not more tragic for Russia itself?

 

[transam]

What's your opinion on the reference in the media to the nuclear threat and from the man himself? If it actually got to the stage of Putin saying to his generals 'time to press the button' and meaning it, do you think at that point he would be relieved of his position, mysteriously disappear, or do you think they would follow through on his command?

Part of me wonders if there's already a plan in place if he were to cross a certain line, because surely the commencement of nuclear warfare would be equally if not more tragic for Russia itself?

Russia is a massive country ??

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Russia is a massive country ??

I'm aware of that. My question is more related to, if Putin were to order the launch of nuclear weapons in any shape or form (i.e. to any country whether Ukraine or other) would, internally, that be a crossed line within his top ranks.

 

[Charlie George]

What's your opinion on the reference in the media to the nuclear threat and from the man himself? If it actually got to the stage of Putin saying to his generals 'time to press the button' and meaning it, do you think at that point he would be relieved of his position, mysteriously disappear, or do you think they would follow through on his command?

Part of me wonders if there's already a plan in place if he were to cross a certain line, because surely the commencement of nuclear warfare would be equally if not more tragic for Russia itself?

Using Nuclear weapons is a last resort, russias future itself is not threatened like it was in WW2, if they used nuclear weapons against Ukraine now we would have to do something in retaliation,and even if only tactical weapons were used it would start a widescale rush for neighbouring countries (ie Poland etc) to develop their own weapons to protect themselves. Most of the rich ruling class in russia have too much to lose, and probably don't care about the special military operation, and China would not be happy about it either, as im sure once russia and the US/NATO blast each other to oblivion, the Chinese may find them coming their way also from the US

 

[ajohn]

the nuclear threat and from the man himself

Nuke bombs aren't much use for capturing land. They are only any use for destroying things and leave big problems behind that can spread over very large distances. Even into Russia if used in Ukraine. Eastern Europe and even further as well.

All produced tactical ones and then banned them. Useful kit. Use them and then provide your soldiers with heavy protective gear and expect them to fight and advance. Great idea.

ER looked promising and can be built into a shell. Banned as the idea probably proved to be unusable. for similar reasons

This is why the news frequently says that they doubt if Putin will use them. Russia states what conditions would cause them to be used rather clearly. It essentially means that the very existence of their state has to be threatened. I suppose there is a chance of that happening under current circumstances. That would mean all they have launching immediately. Whole idea of MAD. USA and others would do the same.

Russia has more warheads than any one else. I wonder. They have to counter USA, France and the UK.

Russia uses some stuff in Ukraine that is banned. What is seldom mentioned is that not by all countries. USA usually figures in that, probably UK and others as well.

 

[gant]

Russia uses some stuff in Ukraine that is banned. What is seldom mentioned is that not by all countries. USA usually figures in that, probably UK and others as well.

Pinned you down aj your Paul Whitehouse.?

isnt milk brilliant fast show - Google Search

 

[ajohn]

Pinned you down aj your Paul Whitehouse.?

I missed a problem with using tactical nukes and er for that matter. Tell me what it was.

 

[gant]

Tactical nukes won't be used.Your being had and if your not you will have been had.

 

[Justin Passing]

Ukraine used stuff in Ukraine that was banned! Cluster bombs and that.

I haven't kept track of all the whizz bang gizmos Russia is supposed to have, but daresay they can deploy something desperate. Monster vacuum bombs or something.
I suspect the old border will prove significant. Your average Vlad and many a plokhoi may be reluctant to send his comrades off to die the other side of it. Some may see parts of Ukraine as the Motherland and worth fighting for, but It's a big country, so surely not many.
Would poots be bitter enough to contaminate a no-go zone though? Could be.

 

[transam]

Imo if Putin did use a tactical nuke in the Ukraine Nato / west / USA

Would respond with a massive conventional attack against the Russians in the Ukraine / Crimea

And pretty much wipe them out including there navsl
Assets in the Black Sea

There after it will depend on what Putins response would be ???

 

[IT Minion]

Cluster munitions aren't banned everywhere or under all circumstances. Landmines aren't banned by everyone. Incendiaries aren't banned by everyone.

There is a lot of tedious detail in what weapons are legal and aren't. Neither Ukraine and Russia have signed up to some of the bans we have signed up for, so they still use mines and cluster munitions. So using them isn't a crime or banned.

But that doesn't mean they are allowed to use either on civilian targets. Which Russia definitely has. That is a war crime.

Using a tactical nukes wouldn't be a war crime in itself. But there would be significant diplomatic consequences. Plus the Russian army isn't equipped to fight in NBC situations, there's supposed to be able to just like us, but if their filters work I'm a Tory party member.

 

[Notch7]

Ukraine used stuff in Ukraine that was banned! Cluster bombs and that

Are you sure that has been proven?

in any case why would Ukraine use cluster bombs, they are mostly used in civilian areas, Ukraine isn’t going to bomb Ukrainian towns

 

[IT Minion]

Are you sure that has been proven?

in any case why would Ukraine use cluster bombs, they are mostly used in civilian areas, Ukraine isn’t going to bomb Ukrainian towns

They aren't banned and Ukraine does use them.

 

[Odds]

After all the military might thrown at Ukraine, it looks like Russia is becoming entrenched in defensive positions with one eye of the winter, hoping to maintain its position on the Dneiper. The way Ukraine have used modern A-A defence systems, and drones in particular, has made the enemy much more circumspect in using its overwhelming Air and Naval superiority to take a strategic advantage.
Drones have caused a lot of damage considering how cheaply made they are and Chinese military planners will certainly be taking detailed notes on their effectiveness in maintaining a defensive position.
I don't think Russia is done yet but Ukraine must hang tough this winter as economic measures begin to bite. It's not going to be easy for western governments either and it will be down to eastern Europe to keep them focused on keeping a united front. A huge demonstration in Prague this weekend shows they still remember Russian occupation.
Cheering them on from a distance is easy for us - but every time we send a shipment of military aid it's us who end up paying for it. With all our economic problems it helps to remember that.

 

[ajohn]

Plus the Russian army isn't equipped to fight in NBC situations, there's supposed to be able to just like us, but if their filters work I'm a Tory party member

Or if anyone's filters work that well. The other problem with them is a sort of mini MAD situation when both sides start lobbing them at each other in a more conventional war to capture some area. Better to use conventional and hurl the odd vacuum bombs around when suitable which aren't banned by all either.

My view as to why some nuke items are banned is rather cynical. It's my own. Practicalities of using them. That doesn't mean that there is also some concern. The view in part comes from a past missile treaty. An agreed limit on those and then go for multiple warheads. The treaty. Much televised, paper signing etc and in real terms a sham,

Putin's comments. Probably to remind people that they have their own deterrent complete with i's upgraded delivery system.

NBC kit - I am sure they have it.