As expected you don't have an answer hence playing at what you do best, ie a confused clown
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the irony
Ukraine, Light At the End Of The Tunnel, THE END GAME
- Thread starter The Samaritan
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the irony
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Utter ******. Even Farage conceded defeat in the small hours.
That appears to have been Russia's idea but didn't happen so fighting kicked off.
It all started with a previous President. It sounds like he wanted money but not clear. Talk of moving towards Europe but he chose to go in Russia's direction. This fired up what has been described as right wing nationalists, riots in a number of areas and take overs of government building. There are animations of the struggles about on the wiki. There were also some dubious armed groups around, some fascist. Oligarchs backed some groups too. Then comes the run up to Minsk. The cease fire and weapon limitations do not seem to have ever worked out. Just before Russia got much more involved there were reports of Ukraine side moving heavier gear into place. To mop up what remained of Dombas "insurgents" ? - pass.
In terms of corruption it seems much like Russia as far as oligarchs are concerned, Not so rich but still $b's running TV etc. When the USSR fell most countries thought Ukraine would do well due to what was done there while in the USSR but it didn't. One of Selensky's ideas in power was an oligarch bill but following some politician changes it was weakened and doesn't seem to be well regarded by legal people anyway as other countries do have laws which are supposed to limit their scope LOL, I wonder. Money does interfere with politics and that is the definition of an oly.
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The majority of polls gave remain a lead.
The fact that different polls came up different results, show that they are not reliable.
An independently monitored referendum in the disputed areas that showed a pro Ukraine majority would have destroyed Putins claims as nothing more than propaganda.
Ireland, like Ukraine was part of a larger union.While people might think things that happened long ago don't matter now afraid they often do.
Like Ukraine, Ireland left its union.
The diffence between the Irish example and the Ukranian one, is that the UK government partitioned Ireland in order to avoid a Balkan style civil war.
Maybe Russia should have held referendums in Ukraine before granting independence.
After all modern Ukraine is an artificial construct created by the communists.
D
Deleted member 174758
I see we are talking utter b*ll*x yet again.
It started a lot earlier, John. Russia was involved in attempted assasination, by poisoning, of an earlier Ukrainian presidential candidate, Viktor Yushenko (president 2005 to 2010), after massive electoral fraud favouring Viktor Yanukovytch, a prominent supporter of Russia (see below) was proven and the election annulled by the Ukrainian Supreme Court
Viktor Yanukovytch did eventually become president from 2010 to 2014, but whilst in office he was widely criticized for massive corruption and cronyism. Eventually he overrode parliament to pursue a Russian loan bailout and closer ties with Russia rather than signing the pending EU association agreement which parliament had agreed. This subsequently resulted in the events referred to as the Euromaidan in which many citizens were killed or injured. Yanukovytch did a bit of a "moonlight flit" in a Russian military helicopter in 2014 when his authority collapsed, going into exile in southern Russia. The Ukrainian parliament subsequently removed from office and eventually tried him in absentia and sentenced him to 13 years in prison for high treason. He is still in exile, in Russia.
Petro Poreshenko, Yanukovytch's successor (Zelensky's predecessor, president from 2015 to 2019, and the guy you may have seen in some news footage), took the country further in the direction of the EU, but also promoted the Ukrainian language (in the same way that Ierse is taught iin Ireland and Welsh in Wales) which upset Putin's lot.
If you are still with, from that it becomes obvious that Russia has meddled in Ukraine's affairs almost continuously since about the time of Putin's accession. So Russia initiated this war - they were certainly not provoked. The real reason is nothing to do with NATO, though, it is more to do with the liklihood of Ukraine joining the EU, which would result in a major boost to their economy, together with a diminution of corruption in the country (much of which is a carry over from the Soviet era and subsequent developments - with oligarchs such as the pro-Russia Yanukovytch and his family being very much to the fore). A succesful, open and free society with an elected government (as opposed to a dictatorship with a censored press) where the oligarchs have less power wouldn't sit well as an example right next door to Russia, where some of that culture would inevitably bleed across the border and "contaminate" Russia and Russians.
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D
Deleted member 174758
But that doesn't justify a war, and Putin's take on Ukraine is equally not historically correct. Remember that Ukraine tried between 1917 and 1921 to become independent, and it wasn't the only time. Ukraine isn't going to crawl back under Russian domination willingly - the reason is obvious when you take into account its' modern history (see my previous post).
The ukranians are entitled to
Independance and that’s it and all about it
they have been independant since the Soviet Union went pear shaped
Putin / Russians are the aggressors
and all this talk about how we have arrived at this point is neither here nor there imo
blaming the EU
Nato
Joe Stalin
It any thing else is irrelevant they are where they are
millions displaced
A refugee crisis
Thousands of civilian casualties
A country that is being reduced to rubble
Independance and that’s it and all about it
they have been independant since the Soviet Union went pear shaped
Putin / Russians are the aggressors
and all this talk about how we have arrived at this point is neither here nor there imo
blaming the EU
Nato
Joe Stalin
It any thing else is irrelevant they are where they are
millions displaced
A refugee crisis
Thousands of civilian casualties
A country that is being reduced to rubble
D
Deleted member 174758
There are reports now coming in that if they are evacuated to Russia they will be sent into the middle of the country and forced to sign a 3 year labour contract where they work, but aren't paid - effectively they become indented serfs or slaves. How humanitarian is that?
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