Vive La France!

[JonathanM]

I don't normally take much interest in the abortion debate, what annoys me is the attempt by others to portray the act of abortion as something it isn't.

What do you think about the situation in Northern Ireland where abortion, in theory at least, is easier to access than the rest of the UK. I know that decision was taken by Westminster when Stormont was shut down. Even as somebody who supports abortion, it seems a bit odd to me to have this difference, especially in a country where public opinion is less in favour of abortion than the rest of the UK.

 

[Notch7]

But you're arguing over a fart in a hurricane

Motorbiking dug his own hole, we live in a free country, I support his right to stay in his hole.

 

[Notch7]

What do you think about the situation in Northern Ireland where abortion, in theory at least, is easier to access than the rest of the UK. I know that decision was taken by Westminster when Stormont was shut down. Even as somebody who supports abortion, it seems a bit odd to me to have this difference, especially in a country where public opinion is less in favour of abortion than the rest of the UK.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

[noseall]

Two doctors - check.

Opinion formed in good faith - check.

HSA1 form signed and dated - check.

Abortion approved.

 

[noseall]

I think he should give careful consideration to more than just one aspect to a pregnancy: is the Doctor a Christian? his outlook will affect the opinion. He is considering the potential life of a human being.

Doctors can and will conscientiously object. Another doctor will be sought to consult with the patient and approve the abortion via a HSA1 form.

 

[Odds]

Nothing wrong with that.
Better knowledge and access to contraception is good.

But since there will always be some women getting pregnant, legal abortion will always be needed.

On that basis I don’t see how sex education has any bearing on abortion laws.

well, i hear if you skin up it reduces the risk of pregnancy.
Just because a girl gets drunk is no excuse to end a life, is it?

 

[Notch7]

Just because a girl gets drunk is no excuse to end a life, is it?

So a girl would be forced to have a baby, in a situation where there is no relationship or financial stability. Condemning her to a life of poverty.

The girl could have an abortion, go to university, get a good career meet a husband, then choose to have a baby.

Which of those scenarios would you prefer?


When you say “end a life” what does that look like in reality?

 

[noseall]

You really want to say it takes five minutes to make that assessment?

Okay.

Not that long (5 mins), no.

As I have said there is already a preconceived notion that pregnancy and childbirth is mentally debilitating.

Besides, the onus is on the doctors and that's why there are two involved. Thats also why there is a certification and declaration process (signed and dated) before the abortion is approved.

 

[blup]

But it is the approval - of the RMP - that their opinion has been formed in good faith.

Word games. Its the choice of the woman not the approval of a doctor of their own opinion. Have you thought that many doctors might disapprove of the process on personal moral grounds? They're not an agent of the state.

But you're arguing over a fart in a hurricane

More a typhoon in a hurricane.

 

[Notch7]

Word games. It’s the choice of the woman not the approval of a doctor of their own opinion. Have you thought that many doctors might disapprove of the process on personal moral grounds? They're not an agent of the state

I accept that it’s the choice of the woman, but she still can’t get an abortion without getting it signed by 2 drs


You are conflating the 2 meanings of approval

1) it means ‘the action of approving something, it is the formal or official statement that something is acceptable
example: “the road scheme has been approved”
example: ‘we have received building regulations approval’

2) the belief that something is good or acceptable, a positive opinion of something or somebody
example: “I approve of the outfit my wife is wearing

 

[Brigadier]

Now you're at it.

Word games.

not the approval of a doctor of their own opinion.

I didn't say that: I said that

[they are verifying] their opinion has been formed in good faith.

That's all that they're being required to do (if they sign).

Have you thought that many doctors might disapprove of the process on personal moral grounds?

Not that it is relevant (to my point-of-view), but they are free to not sign, are they not?

More a typhoon in a hurricane.

If you want to make a huge deal over the meaning of a word - that's not relevant anyway - that's your choice.

 

[denso13]

Its the choice of the woman not the approval of a doctor of their own opinion.

Doctor's aren't approving anyone's opinion, that doesn't come into it. They are simply stating whether the law has been complied with.

Have you thought that many doctors might disapprove of the process on personal moral grounds?

That is covered in the process.

 

[blup]

I accept that it’s the choice of the woman, but she still can’t get an abortion without getting it signed by 2 drs


You are conflating the 2 meanings of approval

1) it means ‘the action of approving something, it is the formal or official statement that something is acceptable
example: “the road scheme has been approved”
example: ‘we have received building regulations approval’

2) the belief that something is good or acceptable, a positive opinion of something or somebody
example: “I approve of the

I accept that it’s the choice of the woman, but she still can’t get an abortion without getting it signed by 2 drs


You are conflating the 2 meanings of approval

1) it means ‘the action of approving something, it is the formal or official statement that something is acceptable
example: “the road scheme has been approved”
example: ‘we have received building regulations approval’

2) the belief that something is good or acceptable, a positive opinion of something or somebody
example: “I approve of the outfit my wife is wearing

The nuances of the two meanings of approval don't apply when the word in question is certify

 

[blup]

Now you're at it.






I didn't say that: I said that


That's all that they're being required to do (if they sign).




Not that it is relevant (to my point-of-view), but they are free to not sign, are they not?




If you want to make a huge deal over the meaning of a word - that's not relevant anyway - that's your choice.

System wont let me quote you and what you quoted from me and im not going to type it out

 

[Odds]

Not that long (5 mins), no.

As I have said there is already a preconceived notion that pregnancy and childbirth is mentally debilitating.

Of course it is - stress has been a part of pregnancy since the time of Eve. In the Medieval Age it was looked on with real fear as a woman had a good chance of dying. Modern medicine makes the chance of survival much higher and most women do not have that kind of fear, but a primal instinct remains to fear childbirth as much as look forward to it.
A trained medical professional can allay these fears with assurances of how good his medicine is but counselling is a different ball game.