Vive La France!

[motorbiking]

What do you think about the situation in Northern Ireland where abortion, in theory at least, is easier to access than the rest of the UK. I know that decision was taken by Westminster when Stormont was shut down. Even as somebody who supports abortion, it seems a bit odd to me to have this difference, especially in a country where public opinion is less in favour of abortion than the rest of the UK.

It’s not odd when you understand which laws are England and Wales only.

 

[motorbiking]

Yes, a woman has the right to seek an abortion. She can self refer if she likes.

It's a doctors job to follow the terms of the act, otherwise it is unlawful. Following the terms of the act means forming an opinion in good faith, along with a second doctor.
They are then required to sign and date a HSA1 form, thus approving the abortion.

Whilst seeking abortion is the choice of the woman, the onus is on the doctor to follow the terms of the Act. There is no choice if the abortion is to lawfully proceed.

Correct with a minor change

 

[JonathanM]

It’s not odd when you understand which laws are England and Wales only.

I'm pretty sure I know which laws are England and Wales only. But this is nothing to do with the construction of the laws. It was a deliberate choice by Westminster to have different rules for Northern Ireland. That is what I find odd. I am obviously aware of the divergence between 1967 and 2019!

 

[blup]

I'm pretty sure I know which laws are England and Wales only. But this is nothing to do with the construction of the laws. It was a deliberate choice by Westminster to have different rules for Northern Ireland. That is what I find odd. I am obviously aware of the initial divergence after 1967!

Why is that odd, NI is distinct in so many cultural and religious ways from mainland Britain. The protestants are stronger defenders of pro life that the catholics (politicians that is)

 

[JonathanM]

Why is that odd, NI is distinct in so many cultural and religious ways from mainland Britain. The protestants are stronger defenders of pro life that the catholics (politicians that is)

Exactly. So why did they make it easier in Northern Ireland than the rest of the UK?

 

[blup]

Eh?
Do you think a woman can get an abortion without approval from two doctors?
Then oddly in your next breath you say a doctor might disapprove based on moral grounds.

Make your mind up.

I was making the point that the wording of the 67 legislation clearly took account of the fact that doctors had the right to hold personal views about the process. That is why - I believe after considering mbk's research - the word certify rather than approve was used. My next breath statement about doctors disapproving was a play on words, I apologise for being over subtle.

 

[blup]

Exactly. So why did they make it easier in Northern Ireland than the rest of the UK?

Probably the shin fane lot trying to steal a march on their oppo's, vinty will have chapter and verse.

 

[JonathanM]

Probably the shin fane lot trying to steal a march on their oppo's, vinty will have chapter and verse.

I was asking Vinty.

 

[noseall]

I believe after considering mbk's research - the word certify rather than approve was used

That's merely a semantic detour from what distinguished bodies of learned folk CLEARLY state....
84. The Abortion Act 1967 requires that an abortion under ground A to E is certified by two doctors, who must each sign a Department of Health HSA 1 form to give notification that the abortion has been approved

Are these people (there are many that use the word 'approve') lying then? Should they be sued? Should they use a disclaimer/caveat when describing the act of signing and dating the HSA1 form is 'approving' the abortion?

If you can show me written evidence that their choice of word is wrong, then I'll bow down (after eating my hat). So far all MBK has done is hide behind 'they don't use that word in the Act', lol.

 

[Odds]

Abortion Is destroying a foetus. Removing access to abortion kills women or forces them to seek unsafe abortions.

When has restricting access to abortion EVER had a positive effect?

Do you imagine decriminalisation will be any better?

 

[noseall]

Do you imagine decriminalisation will be any better?

Will?

 

[noseall]

Do you imagine decriminalisation will be any better?

In countries where abortion is illegal, the health impact on women is well documented: for example, the WHO estimates that 68,000 women worldwide die each year due to complications of unsafe abortion; and Nepal recently liberalised its abortion laws, cutting maternal mortality rate from 539 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2001 to 281 per 100,000 live births in 2006.[201] The fpa informed us that:

In Romania, policies restricting access to abortion led to a significant increase in maternal mortality from 20 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 1966 to over 100 per 100,000 in 1974 and to 150 per 100,000 in 1983. After the restrictive laws were revoked, the rate of maternal deaths fell rapidly to 40 per 100,000 live births in 1989. It is estimated that around 200,000 Romanian women died between 1966 and 1988 as a result of unsafe abortion.[202]

 

[Odds]

Will?

Feminist groups are lobbying for decriminalisation of bortion claiming it's "their body, their right". I posted a link waaaaay back in the thread. Basically, they want to take medical opinion out of the loop and buy abortion pills as they would birth control.

 

[ajohn]

Basically, they want to take medical opinion out of the loop and buy abortion pills as they would birth control.

I don't think that is even feasible past some number of weeks and that needs checking, I posted the weeks where needs change mostly due to the old tales of abortions being done with a coat hanger. Unborn babies are not broken up when they are aborted.

There are concerns about pills by post in a number of areas.

 

[noseall]

Feminist groups are lobbying for decriminalisation of bortion claiming it's "their body, their right".

Abortion is legal as long as it follows the terms set out in the act.

Basically, they want to take medical opinion out of the loop and buy abortion pills as they would birth control.

Ahh, gotcha. Not sure on that one (personally). Whilst I agree that it would speed up the issues regards the approval process, it does relinquish accountability. Would nurses and midwives welcome the responsibility, I wonder? There have been thorough studies, looking at this very thing. Fitting a coil for example requires a similar skill set to vacuum aspiration.
Removal of medical opinion altogether? Dunno?