Seems like Odds was at odds with the post I wrote…which is odd
Vive La France!
- Thread starter noseall
- Start date
Sponsored Links
The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 makes it a criminal offence to intentionally unlawfully procure a miscarriage, including for a woman to procure her own miscarriage. The Infant Life (Preservation) Act 1929 makes it an offence to intentionally kill a child, capable of being born alive, before it has a life independent of its mother. The Abortion Act creates exceptions to these offences in certain limited circumstances. 8. The Abortion Act makes abortion legal where the pregnancy is terminated by an RMP and, except in emergencies, where two RMPs are of the opinion formed in good faith that one of the lawful grounds specified in the Act are met. Forming an opinion in good faith 9. If there is evidence that either certifying doctor has not formed their opinion in good faith then the doctor performing the termination is not protected by section 1(1) of the Abortion Act and has potentially committed a criminal offence by terminating the pregnancy. It is also possible that the doctor could be acting contrary to their professional duties.10. Practices have come to light recently which call into question whether doctors have acted in accordance with their legal obligations under the Abortion Act. These practices include the signing of HSA1 forms by doctors before a woman has been referred, and doctors signing forms relying solely on decisions made about the woman in question by other doctors or members of the multi-disciplinary team without any other information. Abortion certification11. Form HSA1 must be completed, signed and dated by two RMPs before an abortion is performed2. The HSA1 form must be kept with the patient notes for 3 years from the date of termination3. The form must be completed by both RMPs certifying their opinion, formed in good faith that at least one and the same ground for abortion in section 1(1) of the Abortion Act exists4. The certification takes place in the light of their clinical opinion of the circumstances of the pregnant woman’s individual case. The lawful grounds for abortion are set out in Annex A. 2 Regulation 3(2) Abortion Regulations 1991 S.I. 1991/4993 Regulation 3(4) Abortion Regulations 1991 S.I. 1991/4994 See the form in Part 1 to Schedule 1 and regulation 3(ii)(d) of the Abortion Regulations 1991
Two doctors - clear as day.
- that abortion on the grounds of gender alone is not lawful
- the expectation that 2 doctors, when certifying that an abortion meets the criteria set out in the Act, must consider the individual circumstances of the woman and be prepared to justify their decision
- that it is good practice for at least one of the doctors to have seen the pregnant woman before reaching a decision about the termination
- that pre-signing of statutory abortion certificates prior to consideration of a woman’s circumstances is not compliant with the Act
- that doctors have a legal duty to report all abortions to the Chief Medical Officer
Gender is not itself a lawful ground for abortion in England, Wales and Scotland (Abortion Act 1967). DH guidance, in May 2014, states that abortion on the grounds of gender alone is illegal. Under the Abortion Act, it is lawful to abort a foetus where two registered medical practitioners (RMPs) (i.e. doctors)) are of the opinion, formed in good faith, “that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”.
Two doctors - clear as day.
Sponsored Links
The Abortion Act makes abortion legal where the pregnancy is terminated by an RMP and, except in emergencies, where two RMPs are of the opinion formed in good faith that one of the lawful grounds specified in the Act are met.
Two doctors - clear as day.
When someone is acting in “good faith,” it means that he is acting with honest intent, and is expected to be honest and to keep his promises without taking advantage of someone else. It is also expected that he will not hold the other party to an impossible standard.
approve
verb
ap·prove ə-ˈprüvapproved; approving
Synonyms of approve
transitive verb
1
: to have or express a favorable opinion of
couldn't approve such conduct
2
a
: to accept as satisfactory
hopes she will approve the date of the meeting
b
: to give formal or official sanction (see SANCTION entry 1 sense 4c) to : RATIFY
The construction of the law around a doctor's good faith opinion was motivated firstly by a concern about the health consequences of unwanted pregnancy and backstreet abortion for women and their families, and secondly by an unwillingness to legislate for abortion on demand. Women in Britain cannot obtain abortions 'just because' they want them – doctors have to agree that they are warranted. That there is no right to abortion on demand is illustrated in three ways.
First, the law makes very clear that the decision rests with two doctors, according to their own judgement about the impact of abortion versus childbirth on the woman's physical or mental health.
Second, on the question of the woman's social circumstances, the law does not state that doctors 'must' take account of a woman's environment, but that they 'may' do so. This means that doctors are not compelled to take these broader factors into account.
Third, the Abortion Act allows doctors the right to conscientious objection to authorising or performing abortions, except where this is necessary to save the woman's life or to prevent grave, permanent injury to her health. This means that women do not have the right to demand that any doctor performs an abortion for her.
C1Act: transfer of functions (1.7.1999) by S.I. 1999/672, art. 2, Sch. 1
C2References to Minister of Health to be construed as references to Secretary of State: S.I. 1969/1688, arts. 2, 3, 5(4)(a)
C3Act modified (temp. 1.4.1991 to 30.4.1991) by S.I. 1991/480, art. 3(3)-(5)
Commencement Information
I1Act wholly in force 27.4.1968 see s. 7(2)
1Medical termination of pregnancy.
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall not be guilty of an offence under the law relating to abortion when a pregnancy is terminated by a registered medical practitioner if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith—[F1(a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or
(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or
(c)that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or
(d)that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.]
D
Deleted member 221031
It was a question you wouldn't answer, so it obviously put you on a back foot.
I have no skin in this particular argument, but here's another way to think about it which might (although I doubt it!) help break the deadlock.
If you think back to the Supreme Court ruling over Rwanda, the judges gave their opinion, in good faith, that the plan was illegal.
Is that the same as them refusing to approve the plan? Is ruling the plan was illegal, the same as denying permission?
If you think back to the Supreme Court ruling over Rwanda, the judges gave their opinion, in good faith, that the plan was illegal.
Is that the same as them refusing to approve the plan? Is ruling the plan was illegal, the same as denying permission?
- Joined
- 22 Jan 2007
- Messages
- 16,411
- Reaction score
- 2,320
- Country
The Rwanda treaty itself is faulty (ruled unlawful Nov 2023), therefore no immigrants can be deported, using that scheme. Abortion in the UK is legal as long as the terms set out in the 1967 Abortion Act are followed. It is the action of the two doctors that is under strict scrutiny. If they fail to follow the terms of the act, then they can be considered to be committing a criminal act.
The legal ruling was that rawanda wasn't a safe country so sending people there broke international law. Good faith didn't come into it, government bad faith did count though.
Sponsored Links
