War Is Brewing.

[cwhaley]

It's just annoying when so many good threads descend into bickering. Makes it hard for people new to the discussion to share their take.

 

[AngleEyes]

This might give you a better understanding.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/want-to-understand-the-conflict-in-ukraine-compare-it-to-ireland/amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16427623233232&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/want-to-understand-the-conflict-in-ukraine-compare-it-to-ireland

A little out-of-date, Vinty. And written prior to Brexit.
But some acceptable comparisons still apply.
As far as the greater concentration of resources existing in NI, UK were very much aware of that, and drew the proposed boundaries for NI, with that in mind.
Also, 'English' settlers into NI was actively encouraged and facilitated by Britain during Britain's dominance over the whole of Ireland.

 

[Justin Passing]

I entirely agree with you, but unfortunately there are always those few that exploit any and every opportunity to promote their own agenda.
Any hook will do on which to hang their own narrative.
My apologies for my off-topic comments, but they are and were in response to the usual culprits.

Ironic that, coming from one of the worst offenders.

--

Nobody is suggesting Putin has a valid reason to invade, there's no point posting that, but he will use some of the foregoing as an excuse.
He may have reasons other than a land-grab. Has anyone seen any?

 

[ajohn]

This might give you a better understanding.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/want-to-understand-the-conflict-in-ukraine-compare-it-to-ireland/amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16427623233232&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/want-to-understand-the-conflict-in-ukraine-compare-it-to-ireland

It does but perpetuates the Kennedy myth. What actually happened was that the missile boats turned around when he agreed to remove some missiles that they had put in a very stupid place if they didn't expect problems. So Russia showed the intent of doing exactly the same thing. Messing up current ideas at the time about early warnings of missile strikes.

 

[Justin Passing]

A bit off topic - partly on.

I watched one of those "warship" progs the other eve. It was about HMS Northumberland trying to track a Russian sub which was doing what they apparently do a lot - sniffing round the pipe lines and comms links on the sea bed. Northumberland lost the sub, then deployed their entire stock of sonar bouys to find it. Crazy Ivan turned on the ship and broke the sonar arrays off the bottom of it. Northumberland went home, tail between its legs, crew all congratulating each other.

Russkies probably have many mines dropped ready for Putin's button...

 

[ajohn]

I don't think it addresses it at all. It merely mentions it in passing.

I didn't say it did address it. Can you read or what? I used an entirely different word. Do you have a stunted minds as well as vocabulary. Your mostly just an irritant at times. A different type of troll.

 

[Justin Passing]

Interesting angle here: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-the-pipeline-would-germany-side-with-russia-in-a-conflict suggesting that Germany will be motivated to do absolutely nothing. Biden will do nothing, and Putin gets to put cracks inthe EU.

UK doesn't matter, but might be a convenient little target for Putin to swat.


----
ajohn this is the guy who couldn't solve part of a crossword clue:
"Knight", 3 letters ...... ..was "sir"

 

[AngleEyes]

Interesting angle here: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-the-pipeline-would-germany-side-with-russia-in-a-conflict suggesting that Germany will be motivated to do absolutely nothing. Biden will do nothing, and Putin gets to put cracks inthe EU.

The article is based on Germany being faced with a dichotomy, preserving the unity of the EU, or sacrificing that union in favour of its own energy dependence on Russia. I would suggest that's a false premise. Germany will, IMO, always seek to preserve the unity of the EU.

I think any invasion of Ukraine will test NATO's resolve rather than the EU

 

[ajohn]

Interesting angle here: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-the-pipeline-would-germany-side-with-russia-in-a-conflict suggesting that Germany will be motivated to do absolutely nothing. Biden will do nothing, and Putin gets to put cracks inthe EU.

UK doesn't matter, but might be a convenient little target for Putin to swat.


----
ajohn this is the guy who couldn't solve part of a crossword clue:
Knight, 3 letters ...... .. sir

I think you will find that Germany buys gas of Russia anyway. There are indications that another pipeline was to be added but halted. Should have been finished now but stopped. There isn't much info about this area around. Why wouldn't Germany trade with nearby countries. Trump certainly wasn't happy about gas.

Actually the USA on the box have just made some very war like noises. I'd guess the diplomatic arguments are getting some where. Bit like Brexit really. Ask for more than you are going to get. Bear in mind that just as with Kennedy the USA needs to appear to win. The trouble is that this aspect doesn't have to relate to what Russia decides to do.

 

[^woody^]

Back in the days of the cold war, all this malarkey was routine and if it made the news it was a brief footnote. Thousands of personel and equipment, hundreds of theatre nuclear missiles facing each other on high readiness ready to go at short notice. It really was a constant hair-trigger situation.

Now its all high drama and speculation.

 

[AngleEyes]

I think you will find that Germany buys gas of Russia anyway. There are indications that another pipeline was to be added but halted. Should have been finished now but stopped. There isn't much info about this area around.

I think you'll find that Nord Stream 2 is now completed.
It's the operation of, and potential for weaponising it, that has been the subject of sanctions and concern.

 

[AngleEyes]

Back in the days of the cold war, all this malarkey was routine and if it made the news it was a brief footnote. Thousands of personel and equipment, hundreds of theatre nuclear missiles facing each other on high readiness ready to go at short notice. It really was a constant hair-trigger situation.

Now its all high drama and speculation.

Maybe the general public are so much better informed and aware than during previous crises.

 

[ellal]

Can this thread return to a discussion about Russia, Ukraine, NATO and wider Eastern European politics in general?

It's an on-going event and what with the talks happening between the US and Russia later, it'd be good to have more commentary on that rather than the usual tit-for-tat, ping pong off-topic arguing.

Putin wants a war...

To make himself the 'big man'...

Just as Thatcher wanted to be the 'big woman'...

That's what sociopathic liars do, but sadly there are too many members of their populations who follow their rhetoric without question...

And they pay with their lives, or suffer economic/social consequences that often take generations to put right!

 

[cwhaley]

Putin wants a war...

To make himself the 'big man'...

Just as Thatcher wanted to be the 'big woman'...

That's what sociopathic liars do, but sadly there are too many members of their populations who follow their rhetoric without question...

And they pay with their lives, or suffer economic/social consequences that often take generations to put right!

Agreed but thankfully it seems that domestic support for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine is very limited in Russia. I think modern thinking has got us out of the cycle of war/peace/war/peace. Generations today seem far less enthused about the idea of conflict and can you imagine conscription being enforced across the 18-40 age range in Western Europe?

 

[^woody^]

Agreed but thankfully it seems that domestic support for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine is very limited in Russia.

What was the Russian public view of the invasion of Crimea and Georgia or the ongoing conflict in the Donbas, the intervention in Syria, Libya?

Domestic Russia gets fed the narrative that the dictatorship want them to believe - the nasty western sanctions against poor Russia, the evil NATO empire expanding east ready to attack Russia, the need for Russia to help out poor nations being overthrown by the corrupt west and their puppet regimes.

Domestic opinion does not matter to a dictatorial regime with an iron grip on the country