Read the article, the quotes from Erdogan, not the journalistic comments! "formal resettlement of Syrians on Turkish soil,"
When considering in or out:
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If the EU refuses to agree to Erdogans demand - which Merkel could well do now following the recent rise of far-right parties -
Turkey will just demand more money from the EU for accomodating them. So the EU will continue to pay a country like Turkey to defend its own borders.
It's something like the modern equivalent of Danegeld. The EU nomenclatura has grand ideas about their 'superstate', yet they cannot even protect its borders.
What a complete mess - and Remainers want us to stay with this lot.
Turkey will just demand more money from the EU for accomodating them. So the EU will continue to pay a country like Turkey to defend its own borders.
It's something like the modern equivalent of Danegeld. The EU nomenclatura has grand ideas about their 'superstate', yet they cannot even protect its borders.
What a complete mess - and Remainers want us to stay with this lot.
Sorry Himmy, that's not how I read it - seems pretty clear that he wants Europe to take more refugees. If you read the full article, it's clear he wants us to admit more.
You're inventing problems now.
Like saying, if Scotland went independent and UK discovered oil.
I do agree, however, that EU should provide a substantial budget to police it's outer borders, not leave it to the sometimes hard-pressed, individual countries, to control what is, in effect, the EU borders.
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Of course, it's your interpretation. It suits your argument. But it's not what he said!
How can there be such a long 'discussion' on the unknown?
It just comes down to what people 'think'; no different than the Scottish referendum.
It is a fatuous exercise.
Edit - I mean the referendum.
Both the consequence and alternative of the referendum result, either way, are unknown.
It just comes down to what people 'think'; no different than the Scottish referendum.
It is a fatuous exercise.
Edit - I mean the referendum.
Both the consequence and alternative of the referendum result, either way, are unknown.
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Most political arguments usually are.
Trying to change some peoples opinion is like trying to lever Ayers Rock out of the ground with a broken stick! (Another Bryce Courtenay phrase)
But that doesn't mean you should sit back and allow people to make all sorts of assumptions, assertions, accusations, etc.
D
Doggit
It's a bit odd Himmy, that you can't see the irony of you're comments, because assumptions assertions, and accusations, is all that you seem to do to those who disagree with you.
If you're partner tell you what to wear, who you can see, where you're allowed to go, and who you can be friends with, it's not long before they start hitting you, but some people are too weak - or too stupid - to get out of an abusive relationship. And that's exactly where we are at the moment with the EU; and if we stay, we will get hammered and punished for having the temerity to try and leave.
Neither side knows exactly what will happen if we vote to leave, but we definitely know what'll happen to us if we stay, and if you were more wider read Himmy, you would see all the other info that's out there warning us the state the worlds in.
And the only bearing that we were the sick man of Europe in the 70's, is that we have another weak and inept government again, but just as we grew from that crisis, I don't see why we can't manage this one either.
Americas economy is stagnating, as is China and Russia and the EU; Brazil has just suspended their president for fiddling the economic figures. We are heading into another world recession, and by sticking with the EU, we will go down as well because they are not flexible enough to change they way they insist on steadfastly doing things.
At the end of the day, it's not the governments that solve problems, it's the financial markets that will dictate how far we fall, and it is the small business's that will make the economy grow, and get us out the sh1t that governments always get us into.
Looking at the latest polls today, it seems that Remain is ahead, and may even be gaining ground
Why is it that so many people seem to be taken in by the Remain campaign, which only gives the negatives of Leaving, while offering no positive reasons for staying in the EU?
If we Remain, we will get everything we deserve.
Why is it that so many people seem to be taken in by the Remain campaign, which only gives the negatives of Leaving, while offering no positive reasons for staying in the EU?
If we Remain, we will get everything we deserve.
Because the leave campaign is doing bugger all. It should be taking the opportunity to refute the Leave propaganda and offer a forward-thinking, optimistic worldview, but it's just sitting there mumbling equivalently pessimistic stuff about the EU.
What really, really grinds my gears is the way the Remain campaign keeps saying "3000000 jobs are linked to the EU". No they're not! The EU is a political machine only; the only jobs linked to the EU are the MEPs jobs. The 3000000 jobs are actually linked to the common market. Leaving the EU is not the same as leaving the common market. Busniess always trumps politics; businesses have no interest in points-scoring, it's all about the money, and no-one wants to lose custom or profits. It's business as usual after leaving the EU political machine. If only the Leave campaign would man-up and crow this from the rooftops!
And you accuse me of not seeing irony?
We didn't out grow the '70's problem, we joined the EU!
You accuse the EU of being monster-type politicians, then you claim it's the financial markets that determine our future. Make your mind up.
In addition, on Newsnight, last night, two scenarios were suggested in a case of Brexit, by leading Brexiters.
1, a temporary Norway model, where we abide by EU regulation, allow Schengen, pay into EU, and have access to the EU markets, until we can negotiate a different way, which would probably never be forthcoming, but if it did it would take years and years. Norway have been trying to improve their position for years without success.
2. A complete separation from EU and membership of WTO. That would deny access to Europe for our financial centre in London,. which is 80% of our export and GDP! It would probably allow and encourage the Frankfurt centre to jump in and take over the London business in Europe. Then we won't have a financial market to worry about or to determine our future.
All the Brexiters have to argue about is sovereignty. It's not a case of re-claiming it, it's a case of ditching economic success for a stupid idea that we can determine our own future. There won't be a future left for us to determine.
Isn't it strange how the older generation, dependent on pensions, benefits, etc, want out. Whereas the younger generation dependent on working for their future want to remain.
While the Leave campaign haven't mentioned any negatives about Turkey and the other four nations that are joining the EU tomorrow?Looking at the latest polls today, it seems that Remain is ahead, and may even be gaining ground
Why is it that so many people seem to be taken in by the Remain campaign, which only gives the negatives of Leaving, while offering no positive reasons for staying in the EU?
.
You do yourself and the Leave campaign no justice whatever with your blatantly untrue accusations..
Wut? Brexit does not mean leaving the European free-trade zone. Non-one has ever claimed it does. Sounds like you've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere?.
Yet 79% of Norwegians oppose EU membership and they're in the top 5 or 6 richest countries in the world. Are you for real?
What was untrue about what he said?
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So what model are you suggesting that allows us to remain in the Single Market?
Two were suggested by leading Brexiters on Newsnight last night: Norway model, and out altogether.
What's your idea?
They're in the Schengen area, they have to follow all EU regulations, they have to pay their EU contribution. This is what gives then access to the Single Market. They have no say in what those regulations are.
It's the access to the Single Market that makes them successful, apart from the fact that they have no minimum drinking age, they have 40% of female politicians, and other silly facts like that, which could be just as influential in making them successful.
"No positive reasons to remain" How about economic prosperity? How about personal sovereignty? (personal freedom to move, work, live, etc) How about peace and security? How about having a stronger, more powerful voice in global negotiations?
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