Why I care so much about Israel.

[Mrs Ten Names]

OK, so the only solution is to drive the Israelis into the sea.

Nothing so drastic. Just chuck the Zionists, including Netanyahu out of government.

 

[fillyboy]

Nothing so drastic. Just chuck the Zionists, including Netanyahu out of government.

We're on common ground.

 

[Odds]

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

We're on common ground.

Now you need to accept that Israel's response is disproportionate.
No-one denies a nation the right to defend itself. And that extends to Iran, Lebanon, etc.
But there is a massive difference between Israel defending itself and the current collective disproportionate punishment of a civilian population.

 

[fillyboy]

Now you need to accept that Israel's response is disproportionate.

You can **** right off, that would be a step too far, Israel, as does any country, have a right to defend itself against invasion and as explained earlier, the civilian to combatant ratio is well within modern warfare standards, actually at less that 2 - 1 erring on the low side.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Just as it seemed you could see a bigger picture you closed your mind again

 

[fillyboy]

Just as it seemed you could see a bigger picture you closed your mind again

I've always seen the bigger picture, and it's well documented on here. Show me the posts of my detractors who are capable of seeing both sides of the coin.

Show me one single post where Odds or JohnD suggests that on even one tiny issue, Israel might just have a small point.

Just one post will do.

Then come back and tell me I'm the one with a closed mind.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I've always seen the bigger picture, and it's well documented on here. Show me the posts of my detractors who are capable of seeing both sides of the coin.

Show me one single post where Odds or JohnD suggests that on even one tiny issue, Israel might just have a small point.

Just one post will do.

Then come back and tell me I'm the one with a closed mind.

I read that 1st line, and disagreed.

You have constantly supported israels actions. Never seen the other side

 

[Odds]

If he can find one post i've made in praise of Hamas or even the smallest suggestion Israel shouldn't exist i'd be amazed.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

You can **** right off, that would be a step too far, Israel, as does any country, have a right to defend itself against invasion and as explained earlier, the civilian to combatant ratio is well within modern warfare standards, actually at less that 2 - 1 erring on the low side.

Nonsense. Your statistics probably emanate from Israel, who as a major participant in the conflict has enormous 'skin in the game' to massage the figures.
Whereas

The WHO says the ministry has "good capacity in data collection" and its previous reporting has been credible and "well developed".

Israel Gaza: Checking Israel's claim to have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters

BBC Verify examines the evidence on combatant deaths, as concern grows about the scale of civilian killing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas was estimated to have about 30,000 fighters before the Israel bombardment of Gaza began.
Israel estimates about 13,000 Hamas fighters have been killed. And that about half of Hamas have been killed.
USA estimates about 9,000 - 12,000 have been killed.
I also refer you to several eminent studies:

Civilian to military ratio​

The Gaza Ministry of Health casualty numbers do not provide the proportion of casualties who are civilian; as a result, varying estimates have been given by analysts. A study by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine in The Lancet covering the period 7–26 October estimated 68.1% of casualties were children, women or elders and therefore likely non-combatants,[55] while an analysis published in December in Ha'aretz by Israeli sociologist Yagil Levy estimated at least 61% of the casualties were in this category.[56][57] Both studies were based on figures from Gaza's Ministry of Health. Considering only women, children and elderly as civilians (i.e. classifying all adult men as combatants) gives a conservative figure for civilians, although the true proportion of civilians is likely higher.[58] In early December, Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated that 90% of the casualties were civilians.[59] In December, Israel's military said it estimated two out of three (66%) of those killed to be civilians.[60][61]

Even the conservative figure of 61% is higher than the average civilian death rate in all world conflicts "from the Second World War to the 1990s", according to Yigal Levy.[62] The number of casualties is higher than in any conflict in Gaza's recent history, with Neta Crawford of the Costs of War Project at Brown University stating, "This is, in the 21st century, a significant and out-of-the-norm level of destruction".

Casualties of the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Only about half of the bodies are identifiable, and any buried under the rubble are not counted.

By any metric, this is a wanton killing of civilians, under the pretence of targeting fighters.
It does not include those killed in the West Bank.

Then there's the prevention of Aid reaching Gaza.
Before the bombardment of Gaza, they were receiving about 500 truck loads of aid per day.
Despite Israel's denial of restricting aid reaching Gaza, the evidence shows Israel's denial to be a fabrication of lies:

File:Gaza casualties info-graphic 19 June 2024.pdf - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israel's actions against Palestinians are obscene, cruel, and inhumane. Only events such as the Holocaust, the killing Fields of Cambodia, the Apartheid in South Africa, Nakba, etc, come close to surpassing it for inhumanity.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

I've always seen the bigger picture, and it's well documented on here. Show me the posts of my detractors who are capable of seeing both sides of the coin.

Show me one single post where Odds or JohnD suggests that on even one tiny issue, Israel might just have a small point.

Just one post will do.

Then come back and tell me I'm the one with a closed mind.

You need to stop comparing the arguments for and against, Israel or Palestine.

Look at the data.
Anyone with any humanity would see it for wanton targeting and torturing of civilians.

 

[Vinty]

Since October 7th how many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by the IDF.?
The Palestinian v Israeli ratio must be between 40-1 and 30-1.

 

[ajohn]

Punishment often figures in Israel's response.West Bank and other attacks on Gaza show that. Benjamin's comment on current Gaza - We'll give them something they will never forget. In other words deter them from ever doing the same again.

 

[JohnD]

as does any country, have a right to defend itself against invasion

I'm delighted to see you agree that Palestine has the right to defend itself.

However I fear you have not been able to absorb the fact that Invasion, occupation, annexation and genocide by Israel are not acceptable

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

I'm delighted to see you agree that Palestine has the right to defend itself.

As does Iran, Lebanon, and Yemen.
Certainly in Palestine and Iran's case , they've been provoked in order to cause a reprisal. Then when the reprisal occurs it becomes a justification for further attacks against them.
Germany did exactly the same to start WW2.

When the Israel supporters accuse Hamas, Hezbollah, etc of being Iran's proxies, exactly the same can be said about Israel being USA's proxy.