Why I care so much about Israel.

[fillyboy]

Correct. However is this why Benjamin feels 2 states is now impossible? No one will force a withdrawal? Settler expansion moves have increased a lot of late showing Israel's intent. One aspect of the settlements was cheaper housing for Israeli that can't afford the cities. The prices of the ones that are there has increased. Sound familiar - build some more?

I know, it's a problem John.

 

[JonathanM]

I know, it's a problem John.

So below is a map of the West Bank. I've never really looked in detail before. The biggest part, the yellow part, seems to a military training area for Israel.

I read previously that the Palestinians were given all the bad bits and Israel kept all the good bits. But I don't know what that actually meant. Does it mean in terms of how fertile the land is? What about the large yellow section on the right of the map. Presumably that runs up to the border with Jordan. Why is that part so empty. Is it poor land. Or is it just meant as a military buffer with Jordan.

 

[motorbiking]

Shocking, I for one condemn it. Israel needs to take action on this.

It has said it will prosecute them.

 

[ellal]

It has said it will prosecute them.

All they'll get is a slap on the wrist...

It's a PR announcement...

Normally the IDF/Police look the other way or aid and abet the extremist violence against the Palestinians!

 

[ellal]

So below is a map of the West Bank. I've never really looked in detail before. The biggest part, the yellow part, seems to a military training area for Israel.

I read previously that the Palestinians were given all the bad bits and Israel kept all the good bits. But I don't know what that actually meant. Does it mean in terms of how fertile the land is? What about the large yellow section on the right of the map. Presumably that runs up to the border with Jordan. Why is that part so empty. Is it poor land. Or is it just meant as a military buffer with Jordan.

It's called 'divide and conquer'...

Slowly!

But you're right about the Palestinians given the bad bits...

That goes all the way back to 1948...

And thus the war that has been going on ever since!

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

It's probably the most the Palestinians could hope for,

Of course, because recompense for the torture, killing, dispossession and damage would never be considered.

 

[fillyboy]

So below is a map of the West Bank. I've never really looked in detail before. The biggest part, the yellow part, seems to a military training area for Israel.

I read previously that the Palestinians were given all the bad bits and Israel kept all the good bits. But I don't know what that actually meant. Does it mean in terms of how fertile the land is? What about the large yellow section on the right of the map. Presumably that runs up to the border with Jordan. Why is that part so empty. Is it poor land. Or is it just meant as a military buffer with Jordan.

View attachment 352368

I don't know is the honest answer, but it's an interesting question and something I intend to educate myself about. There may be something in what you say about a buffer zone. Certainly when I lived in the North in 1976 the Golan Heights were regarded as a buffer zone, it was quite barren and relatively empty, littered with burnt out tanks and war debris. I used to hike up the heights to what we knew as the Syrian Ofiicers pool, there were a couple of derelict buildings/bunkers pockmarked by bullets and a small swimming pool fed by cold clean water from a spring.
It was a good place to cool off.
Israel needs a buffer zone with Syria, but not Jordan, they signed a peace treaty with Israel over twenty years ago. The Western border on your map is basically the Jordan River and that suggests to me that would be the most fertile land, that certainly holds further up river into the Hula Valley where I stayed.
The areas a, b and c seems to be a bit of a cluster**** arrangement, I believe Israel laid claim to Judea and Samaria as being historically important to them, claimed other sites as historically important leaving a patchwork of areas for the Palestinians, I'd like to read more about the Oslo Accords as to how and why all parties agreed to this arrangement. It doesn't sound a particularly fair deal to me. I think the majority of the 'settlements' are in area C which is administered by Israel although that doesn't make them any less illegal, and hasn't stopped extreme settlers creeping into other areas.
Give a Jew an inch and he'll take a few hundred acres. I believe the Oslo Accord needs to be revisited but any solution we would view as fair, the Israelis or Palestinians probably wouldn't.

 

[fillyboy]

Of course, because recompense for the torture, killing, dispossession and damage would never be considered.

It's history, how far should they go back. That said, I believe Germany are still paying reparations to Jews, they're currently up to about 80 billion euros.
But that was proper torture, killing and dispossession. 6 million people.

 

[fillyboy]

It's called 'divide and conquer'...

Slowly!

But you're right about the Palestinians given the bad bits...

That goes all the way back to 1948...

And thus the war that has been going on ever since!

In 1948 the arabs were offered a lot more that what's illustrated on Jonathans map, but they rejected it and went to war instead led by Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Iraq. Even some arab commentators are now admitting that wasn't one of their sharpest decisions.

 

[ellal]

In 1948 the arabs were offered a lot more that what's illustrated on Jonathans map, but they rejected it and went to war instead led by Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Iraq. Even some arab commentators are now admitting that wasn't one of their sharpest decisions.

Actually they were offered a small percentage of their homeland and it was the crap bits...

Since then israel has been taking more and more relentlessly...

israelis are quite good at turning the desert into usable land, but then they have had the advantage of western backing/funds to do so...

Which the Palestians/surrounding Arabs didn't/don't...

Plus israel has been cornering the market in that vital commodity known as water and depriving the Palestinians of it!

So there's the reason about the zionist terrorists wanting the prime bits to start with!

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

It's history, how far should they go back. That said, I believe Germany are still paying reparations to Jews, they're currently up to about 80 billion euros.
But that was proper torture, killing and dispossession. 6 million people.

So the reparations to 40,000 odd should be more affordable?
Although then there's the 750,000 forced out during the Nakba.
It's becoming an horrendous total.
Woefully out-of-date now.

On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement.
Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres.
23 May 2017

The Nakba did not start or end in 1948

Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

In 1948 the arabs were offered a lot more that what's illustrated on Jonathans map, but they rejected it and went to war instead led by Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Iraq. Even some arab commentators are now admitting that wasn't one of their sharpest decisions.

Because their land was being taken by an organisation that had no right to take it.
The Palestinians never agreed to the division of Palestine.
The relevant authority (UK) never agreed to it. Granted they didn't oppose it either.

These are arguments that you present and represent time and time again.
Each time they're refuted as invalid arguments.

 

[fillyboy]

Actually they were offered a small percentage of their homeland and it was the crap bits...

Since then israel has been taking more and more relentlessly...

israelis are quite good at turning the desert into usable land, but then they have had the advantage of western backing/funds to do so...

Which the Palestians/surrounding Arabs didn't/don't...

Plus israel has been cornering the market in that vital commodity known as water and depriving the Palestinians of it!

So there's the reason about the zionist terrorists wanting the prime bits to start with!

So the reparations to 40,000 odd should be more affordable?
Although then there's the 750,000 forced out during the Nakba.
It's becoming an horrendous total.
Woefully out-of-date now.

The Nakba did not start or end in 1948

Key facts and figures on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

www.aljazeera.com

Because their land was being taken by an organisation that had no right to take it.
The Palestinians never agreed to the division of Palestine.
The relevant authority (UK) never agreed to it. Granted they didn't oppose it either.

These are arguments that you present and represent time and time again.
Each time they're refuted as invalid arguments.

Well then the only solution is to drive the Jews into the sea. Problem solved.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

Well then the only solution is to drive the Jews into the sea. Problem solved.

You see, there's your problem. You see all Israeli citizens as Jews, and all Jews as Israeli citizens.
Until you can appreciate the difference you will forever make the mistake of what anti-Semitism is.

 

[fillyboy]

You see, there's your problem. You see all Israeli citizens as Jews, and all Jews as Israeli citizens.
Until you can appreciate the difference you will forever make the mistake of what anti-Semitism is.

OK, so the only solution is to drive the Israelis into the sea.