4 in 10 Channel Crossing Migrants are From Albania.

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Thats not 100% correct - it was the interpretation of the UK courts that allowed brief transit through other countries to not limit a person's right to claim asylum in the UK. That does not of course mean, that offences aren't committed in those countries where they do not seek asylum protection.

Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

As we've previously discussed, to comply with article 31, would require a 10,000 nm passage. These people are illegal immigrants, there status may change if their claims are accepted if/when they get to the UK. All the time they remain in France they are open to prosecution. We know the French authorities don't want to prosecute them as they risk asylum claims.
When you think about it, it would be illogical to insist that asylum seekers must apply in the first country of arrival. It shows the forward and global reasoning of UN charters.

Suppose, in an imaginary scenario, someone was being persecuted in NI for their religious beliefs, their gender identity, their political ideology, or whatever takes your fancy. So they escape to UK, or Scotland, or Wales, and they were obliged to apply for asylum "in the first safe country" that they arrived.
It would be absolutely no bother, and would happen below the radar if NI requested their return to NI. It wouldn't even need any extradition treaties, etc.

Now of course that is unlikely to happen within the confines of the UK, but there are many places throughout the world where neighbouring countries do and would oblige their neighbour's requests. I guess it would hardly make the news.
 
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Also, imagine somebody fleeing Qatar because the authorities found out they were gay (death penalty) and they have to claim asylum in the first country they enter, which would be Saudi Arabia. That really wouldn't work, would it?
 
Also, imagine somebody fleeing Qatar because the authorities found out they were gay (death penalty) and they have to claim asylum in the first country they enter, which would be Saudi Arabia. That really wouldn't work, would it?
That was the kind of scenarios that I was thinking of, without being too specific about countries or the potential reasons for persecution.
 
Yes, of population growth, not the number of immigrants as you claimed. Drivel.
Population 1997 (Blair) 58.3 million; 2020 (23 years after Blair) 67 million. Increase 8.7 million or 15%
Population 1974 (23 years before Blair) 56.2 million; 1997 58.3 million. Increase 2.1 million or 4%
Do you think there have been no births in the last 20 years?

Towns and cities up and down the country teem with foreigners that weren't here a few decades ago; official figures show exponential population growth after Tony Blair and Jack Straw changed immigration rules; Denso suggests it's something to do with births.
 
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Also, imagine somebody fleeing Qatar because the authorities found out they were gay (death penalty) and they have to claim asylum in the first country they enter, which would be Saudi Arabia. That really wouldn't work, would it?

Why do you care about a homosexual in Qatar?

Do you really care about him or or you virtue signalling? Have you heard of Dickens's Mrs Jellyby? Look her up; there are a lot of Mrs. Jellybys on this forum.

If you really care, find him and do something to actually help him. Take him into your house for instance. Unless you are prepared to become a terrorist you're never going to change the politics of foreign countries; so if you really want to help you will have to do it on a small, personal scale.
 
Why do you care about a homosexual in Qatar?

Do you really care about him or or you virtue signalling? Have you heard of Dickens's Mrs Jellyby? Look her up; there are a lot of Mrs. Jellybys on this forum.

If you really care, find him and do something to actually help him. Take him into your house for instance. Unless you are prepared to become a terrorist you're never going to change the politics of foreign countries; so if you really want to help you will have to do it on a small, personal scale.
What are you on about? It was just an example of why you can't expect people to ask for asylum in the first country they come to. Are you really that daft?
 
I'm not entirely sure people understand what it is to be granted asylum. It is protection. There can be no, "please send him back" request, which could be applied to a country that is next door but one vs one that is up the other end of the street, so to speak. The convention clearly intends to avoid the need for people to travel thousands of miles at the hands of people traffickers. If the global community agreed quotas based on population per /square km or financial ability to support and a claimant could not guarantee they would remain in the country they chose, then a lot of the asylum economic migration would be replaced with illegal immigration. Genuine claimants would not care as long as they were somewhere safe.

People want to come to the UK for better economic prospects. They understand that if they declare themselves a homosexual christian from a muslim country, it would give them the ability to claim. Traffickers and do-gooders give them advice on how defeat the system.
 
I'm not entirely sure people understand what it is to be granted asylum. It is protection.
I'm confident that the majority of people understand perfectly, the concept of asylum.
But what you don't appear to appreciate is that asylum is granted by the country in which a refugee applies. That country does not have a template handed to it, by the UN, on which they make their assessments or decisions. Their decisions may well be affected by their own beliefs and policies.

There can be no, "please send him back" request, which could be applied to a country that is next door but one vs one that is up the other end of the street, so to speak.
For instance, suppose a Chinese murderer escaped to UK and claimed asylum on the basis that China exercises capital punishment. I am sure that UK would not grant asylum absolutely, they would seek assurances from China that capital punishment would not be applied in this instance. Thus an agreement is reached and the Chinese national is extradited to China. But if China then changes its mind and breaks an international agreement, there's nowt that UK could (or probably would) do.
And UK have 'history' of granting extradition requests to 'friendly' countries based on flimsy and suspect charges: Julian Assange comes to mind.
The core principle is non-refoulement, which asserts that a refugee should not be returned to a country where they face serious threats to their life or freedom. This is now considered a rule of customary international law.


The convention clearly intends to avoid the need for people to travel thousands of miles at the hands of people traffickers.
The UN Convention gives no guidance, nor even mentions the distance travelled for people to seek asylum That is purely and simply your assumption.
The UNHCR seeks to protect refugees, migrants, people trafficked and any person who participates in 'people movement' The Charter does seek to differentiate any status on person while they are 'on the move'. Moreover, it seeks protection for people being smuggled. (NB, in general people smugglers intent to 'smuggle' people illegally into a country.) Arriving and claiming asylum is not attempting to enter a country illegally.
So please stop conflating the two.
People traffickers are criminals, the UN convention does not protect such criminals.

If the global community agreed quotas based on population per /square km or financial ability to support and a claimant could not guarantee they would remain in the country they chose, then a lot of the asylum economic migration would be replaced with illegal immigration.
If the global community agreed quotas it would make little difference to whether asylum seekers are granted asylum in their country of choice.
That is a fundamental freedom enshrined in the Convention.


Genuine claimants would not care as long as they were somewhere safe.
The hardest part is escaping the country of persecution!

People want to come to the UK for better economic prospects.
That applies equally to any developed country. UK has no monopoly on 'better economic prospects'.


They understand that if they declare themselves a homosexual christian from a muslim country, it would give them the ability to claim. Traffickers and do-gooders give them advice on how defeat the system.
I'm sure we all seek advice from whatever quarter is prepared to offer it. Asylum seekers do not have extra special powers that suggests they don't need advice.
 
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I'm not entirely sure people understand what it is to be granted asylum. It is protection. There can be no, "please send him back" request, which could be applied to a country that is next door but one vs one that is up the other end of the street, so to speak. The convention clearly intends to avoid the need for people to travel thousands of miles at the hands of people traffickers. If the global community agreed quotas based on population per /square km or financial ability to support and a claimant could not guarantee they would remain in the country they chose, then a lot of the asylum economic migration would be replaced with illegal immigration. Genuine claimants would not care as long as they were somewhere safe.

People want to come to the UK for better economic prospects. They understand that if they declare themselves a homosexual christian from a muslim country, it would give them the ability to claim. Traffickers and do-gooders give them advice on how defeat the system.
Yeah, right fine, but how could it work? Say 10%, 2 million Syrians want to get the hell away so they walk into Turkey. Who supports them and transports them to all those countries they don't want to go to and don't want to take them?
 
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