Adding two spur sockets to Ring Final

[JohnW2]

wow wait for 3 minutes then 3 come together

Well, if it works with buses .....

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

Double sockets are rated at 20 amps or even some at 13 amps. Not 26 amps.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I was afraid of that.

Pray tell, how would that stop a Mr.Public plugging in 26A.

 

[Sard]

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...kOoff1_PEnpq2BquSncaAohgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks all, going with this as it matches the other sockets. Would appreciate a final confirm please!

 

[JohnW2]

I was afraid of that. Pray tell, how would that stop a Mr.Public plugging in 26A.

Quite so. When we first started arguing about tis issue, many years bacx,I undertook an informal survey of a goodly number of my 'friends and family' - and not a single one of them had ever even considered the possibility that it might not be 'correct' to plug two 13A loads in to a "!3A Double Socket".

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

I was afraid of that.

Pray tell, how would that stop a Mr.Public plugging in 26A.

It wouldn’t. In the same way you cannot stop him plugging in two unfused two way adapters and then four 13 amp loads.

 

[EFLImpudence]

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...kOoff1_PEnpq2BquSncaAohgEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks all, going with this as it matches the other sockets. Would appreciate a final confirm please!

Yes, that's fine.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It wouldn’t. In the same way you cannot stop him plugging in two unfused two way adapters and then four 13 amp loads.

Well - it might occur to some that 4 x 13A may not be advisable in 2 x 13A.

If 2 x 13A in a double socket will damage it (if so) then that is totally unreasonable.

 

[ebee]

Technically there is nothing electrically wrong with two single outlets on an unfused 2.5mm² spur but for some reason the rules say no - and people will argue that in the future someone might swap one of them for a Hadron Collider.

Indeed it used to be permitted to add two single sockets as a spur from the ring. The problem was that such single sockets often got changed to twin sockets at a later date. Therefore you might 3 or 4 outlets on one bog standard spur thereby inviting possible overload. So the rule then became one twin or one single on a (unfused) spur. Of course if you spur to an (switched or unswitched) Fused Connection Unit then onto multiple socket of any quantity then this is ok. People often started to call an FCU a spur which it is not and then this creates misunderstandings . It is that part of the circuit that is actually the spur (think of trains and spurs on mainline tracks might help)

 

[EFLImpudence]

Indeed it used to be permitted to add two single sockets as a spur from the ring. The problem was that such single sockets often got changed to twin sockets at a later date. Therefore you might 3 or 4 outlets on one bog standard spur thereby inviting possible overload.

Not a valid reason as I indicated. People do all sorts of stupid things.

So the rule then became one twin or one single on a (unfused) spur. Of course if you spur to an (switched or unswitched) Fused Connection Unit then onto multiple socket of any quantity then this is ok. People often started to call an FCU a spur which it is not and then this creates misunderstandings . It is that part of the circuit that is actually the spur (think of trains and spurs on mainline tracks might help)

I did not make that mistake.

 

[ebee]

Those cube like adaptors that are unfused are often termed "Death Cubes" LOL

 

[securespark]

If I was wiring a circuit/ building from scratch, I wouldn't entertain a ring final.

 

[JohnW2]

If I was wiring a circuit/ building from scratch, I wouldn't entertain a ring final.

Views about this seem to be very polarised, and sometimes fairly passionately held.

As I've often said, I see few advantages of ring finals ('CPC redundancy' being one of the few), and some downsides, but I personally don't feel particularly strongly in either direction.

As I've also often said, what I'm not really very comfortable about are 20A radials. At the best of times it's impossible for a designer to have any confidence in his/her 'estimate' of what total load will be plugged into any 'multi-socket' circuit, but I'm personally not all that comfortable with the idea of a circuit involving probably a dozen or more (sometimes a lot more) 13A outlets whose total load can, at least in theory, exceed the 'design current' (hence potentially greater than cable CCC and greater than the OPD's In) with just two things 'plugged in', maybe even both into the same double socket.

I'm perfectly happy with (Method C) 4mm 32A radials (and have some).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Some of us only have 16A radials and 16A outlets.

 

[JohnW2]

Some of us only have 16A radials and 16A outlets.

You do - and for the same reasons I've described for 20A radials, I would not be particularly 'comfortable' with multiple 16A sockets on a 16A circuit.

Of could, this is all fairly 'theoretical'. In reality, I doubt whether it is at all common for any sockets circuit (even one supplying kitchen/utility appliances) to be loaded to >20A (or even >16A) "for long periods of time" - so, in common sense terms, there's probably no real problem.

Kind Regards, John