being a soldier.

[jasy]

soldiers deserve to be protected by theie equipment and not have it taken off them as a cost cutting exercise.

That does sicken me, when they send the forces out without enough guns, ammo, fuel, body armour etc. etc.

I would only be mildly surprised if I read that half of the infantry were made to do it in their pants and vest...

Ignorance is a wonderful thing people. If only (as thermo said) you all knew the truth. You can all harp on about this war, this conflict, i would do this and i would do that. The bottom line is none of you have done anything and never would. You cannot even begin to imagine. It doesn't make any difference whether it was world war 1 or Iraq or every war or conflict in between. The emotions are still the same and it is still the soldiers on the ground doing the work with crap equipment but doing it and doing it well. Less talk, people are dying

 

[Freddie]

hhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[jasy]

i think this line should be put to bed now

 

[keyplayer]

We are all to blame, at the end of the day we're all guzzling fossil fuels like there's no tomorrow and Iraq just happens to be sitting on a sh*t load of it. It's gotta come from somewhere.

 

[Freddie]

 

[keyplayer]

And the carnage of WW1 was essentially down to a family dispute ie the royals (prussian warmongers the lot of them). Must be all that inbreeding..

 

[Freddie]

 

[AdamW]

take a few days in France at the old battlefields and see the hundreds of thousands of graves and then lets see the grin come off your faces.

I wholeheartedly agree. I did the very same a couple of months ago at Monte Cassino. Makes you think. As I stood looking up at the monastery, I was proud of Britain and disappointed in humanity.

I know too many people who cried for blood who aren't brave enough to even GIVE blood. When I saw headstones showing people as young as 17 buried as many as 5 to a grave, I couldn't help but wonder if people who were pro-war really knew the human cost of war, and at the same time I wondered if people who were anti-war were anti-war for the right reasons.

It is very easy to say "War is bad, not my voice" etc, but I'll bet that 90% of the anti-war lobby had no more idea than 90% of the pro-war lobby.

 

[pipme]

I would only be mildly surprised if I read that half of the infantry were made to do it in their pants and vest...

Some of their prisoners would have been glad of that much to wear.

Ah, do not be fooled by the capability of Johnny F to machine gun people at one moment and play the 'Me no understandee...' pathetic, ill treated victim the next.
A little exercise .. how many are mildy, if not a little more surprised to see the macho stance and posturing of the insurgents, especially when standing over defenceless captives ? Because the overriding impression is of them being poor victims not the strutting, bullying, bushwacking, head lopping criminals of the Nazi ilk blowing up women and children, killing with impunity.... when in the ascendancy.
We all see pictures of for example ASers ... how meek and mild they all appear .... Who forms the ethnic gangs at large in our society then ? Visitors from Mars or what ?
Someone is taking the p iss bigtime .... easy to do in PC rampant UK where most of the bad stuff ain't happening in my safe middle class backyard ... If I treat a preggy woman from Nigeria here on holiday, well it doesn't matter to me 'cause my NHS salary buys private medical care she ain't nicking my resources !!!

 

[dabaldie]

AdamW wrote:
dabaldie wrote:

soldiers deserve to be protected by theie equipment and not have it taken off them as a cost cutting exercise.


That does sicken me, when they send the forces out without enough guns, ammo, fuel, body armour etc. etc.

I would only be mildly surprised if I read that half of the infantry were made to do it in their pants and vest...


Ignorance is a wonderful thing people. If only (as thermo said) you all knew the truth. You can all harp on about this war, this conflict, i would do this and i would do that. The bottom line is none of you have done anything and never would. You cannot even begin to imagine. It doesn't make any difference whether it was world war 1 or Iraq or every war or conflict in between. The emotions are still the same and it is still the soldiers on the ground doing the work with rubbish equipment but doing it and doing it well. Less talk, people are dying
__________________

the fact is that i do know the truth.
I work with a lot of the MoD, soldiers, pilots, admin etc. Yeah true i havent 'served my country' by fighting. but i do know the anger that is amongst many of the forces (by speaking to them) that they are promised one thing (body armour etc) and given another.
you expect those behind you to supply you with what you need, yet when it comes down to it they let you down. and once again it all comes down to money.

 

[Thermo]

exactly

 

[pipme]

take a few days in France at the old battlefields and see the hundreds of thousands of graves and then lets see the grin come off your faces.

I wholeheartedly agree. I did the very same a couple of months ago at Monte Cassino. Makes you think. As I stood looking up at the monastery, I was proud of Britain and disappointed in humanity.

I know too many people who cried for blood who aren't brave enough to even GIVE blood. When I saw headstones showing people as young as 17 buried as many as 5 to a grave, I couldn't help but wonder if people who were pro-war really knew the human cost of war, and at the same time I wondered if people who were anti-war were anti-war for the right reasons.

It is very easy to say "War is bad, not my voice" etc, but I'll bet that 90% of the anti-war lobby had no more idea than 90% of the pro-war lobby.

I spent quite too long at a war graves cemetery in Perak Malaysia ... A bl##dy long way from home !!
Most immaculately kept .. A tribute to, I believe, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. (CWGC) and the local chaps I saw working there.
P

 

[kendor]

the fact is that i do know the truth.
I work with a lot of the MoD, soldiers, pilots, admin etc. Yeah true i havent 'served my country' by fighting. but i do know the anger that is amongst many of the forces (by speaking to them) that they are promised one thing (body armour etc) and given another.
you expect those behind you to supply you with what you need, yet when it comes down to it they let you down. and once again it all comes down to money.

expensive business, defence perhaps the solution is to disband the armed forces altogether? after all the UK has it's nuclear deterrent.

 

[AdamW]

after all the UK has it's nuclear deterrent.

Not necessarily for much longer... depends on whether or not Whitehall and Westminster agree to a Trident refurbishment/MLU. Perhaps someone will say "But we don't need our own now, France is going to be coming out with some decent-sized nukes soon!"

Most immaculately kept .. A tribute to, I believe, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission

Yes, that is as I understand it too. I think they should always remain immaculate as a monument and as a warning. I think the course of history over the last 50 years would have been very different if every government around the world overlooked a WW1 or WW2 cemetery.

 

[Damocles]

Except that in this case lack of equipment did not all come down to money. That latest 'leaked' memo about the cabinet discussing how they would justify the war? Included a section on how absolutely no one was to know what they were planning. No one was to be given extra money to buy needed equipment. And no one was allowed to spend money they already had on stuff they would need.

You could justify that on military 'surprise' grounds. But that was not the reason. The secrecy was about the uk scratching about for an excuse. If Sadam had really believed he was going to be invaded he might have stopped bluffing the arms inspectors. Then there would have been absolutely no reason for a war.

So anyone who died because the MOD did not have time to buy bullet proof vests, died because the politicians were working up their excuses for war. Not good.