cable zones

[JohnW2]

I see, so I assume the same would apply in ceiling joists as they are covered with plasterboard isolating them.

That's right - ) think it's really essentially common sense - as I said, not using plastic clips as the only thing stopping a cable falling down and getting tangled up with fire-fighters if the clips melt in a fire. I think there has been at least one (I think fatal) incident where that happened to a fire-fighter.

 

[ebee]

he could argue that he would want the money for the first fix, I'm not sure how to argue my way out of this. I was thinking of getting another electrician to inspect the first fix then report back.

Well you could offer to pay a fair amount for work that is already done and subtract any fair amount for additional works that now needs doing because of their install plus cost of any delay expenses so caused, if the contractor is not happy they could ultimately take you to court and a judge would decide.
Some form of arbitration (whether intensive or merely informal) is another option, if you can be agree to agree a solution then good.
There are various options open to you and the installer.

 

[MH731Z]

Update: i spoke with him today and initially he said “what regulation is that ?” Then I explained about the zones then he said “as long as cables are either going horizontally or vertically then its fine”

 

[Murdochcat]

Update: i spoke with him today and initially he said “what regulation is that ?” Then I explained about the zones then he said “as long as cables are either going horizontally or vertically then its fine”

Vertically or horizontally from accessories

 

[johnny2007]

Update: i spoke with him today and initially he said “what regulation is that ?” Then I explained about the zones then he said “as long as cables are either going horizontally or vertically then its fine”

F#ck me upside down!
Get him out of your house!

 

[MH731Z]

Vertically or horizontally from accessories

Yeah I tried to explain that to him but unfortunately he has the 'I'm an electrician' card and I unfortunately do not

F#ck me upside down!
Get him out of your house!

lol yeah it’s leading to that tbh

 

[Murdochcat]

Yeah I tried to explain that to him but unfortunately he has the 'I'm an electrician' card and I unfortunately do not

Doesn’t sound like he’s a spark to me

Report him to the NICEIC with your photos - they may not do much but at his next annual assessment it should be discussed.

Get a proper spark to complete the job

 

[sparkwright]

He's useless, get rid of him, get someone who is prepared to do things properly.

There's always the risk another (bad) electrician could look at the work, and say it doesn't need altering - when it DOES.

 

[JohnW2]

He's useless, get rid of him, get someone who is prepared to do things properly.
There's always the risk another (bad) electrician could look at the work, and say it doesn't need altering - when it DOES.

If that happened, one would obviously need to look for a third one

That hopefully won't happen, since I'm sure that the majority of electricians are reasonably competent - at least competent enough to know that the abomination of work we're talking "needs altering".

 

[sparkwright]

If that happened, one would obviously need to look for a third one

That hopefully won't happen, since I'm sure that the majority of electricians are reasonably competent - at least competent enough to know that the abomination of work we're talking "needs altering".

Always a worry though - when a second electrician comes along promising the earth, then just leaves what has already been done if he can't be bothered.

 

[JohnW2]

Always a worry though - when a second electrician comes along promising the earth, then just leaves what has already been done if he can't be bothered.

If he/she actually understood what (obviously) 'needs to be done', he/she would presume value/want the work, otherwise would not have turned up in the first place to 'promise the earth'? In other words, if they couldn't be bothered to do any work, why would they have bothered to turn up?

 

[ebee]

I have seen some some really bad work done by "Electricians" and some really good works done by "non Electricians" and every shade of grey in between too, over many years. I think that is the same in all walks of life and in almost every subject.

One ( Only one of many) reasons we end up with poor jobs done is when folk get involved in a "Race to the bottom" in pricing encourages a high proportion of shoddy work - that does not mean that high prices always ensure the best results, far from it.

I see a training ethos where the pass mark is the answer of some organisations who provide training and qualifications and a "Cash Cow" mentality of bums on seats and the pass mark is king.
The objective is lost.

It is one thing to be efficient and economical but it is very different thing to use poor service by poorly trained individuals.
Look back to the 60s and 70s and compare the intelligence and aptitude of folk behind the shop counter and compare it to today.
The whole of society has changed in every way, not every change has been for the better unfortunately.

There always was good service and there always was poor service, both in times past and times present but I think some attitudes have changed too much in many respects.

 

[JohnW2]

I have seen some some really bad work done by "Electricians" and some really good works done by "non Electricians" and every shade of grey in between too, over many years. I think that is the same in all walks of life and in almost every subject.

Indeed - a ubiquitous issue, certainly not restricted to electricians.

I see a training ethos where the pass mark is the answer of some organisations who provide training and qualifications and a "Cash Cow" mentality of bums on seats and the pass mark is king. The objective is lost. It is one thing to be efficient and economical but it is very different thing to use poor service by poorly trained individuals.

Indeed, and the nature of the training is often far less than ideal, concentrating on 'how to pass an exam' rather than starting by teaching the underlying principles, which then enable people to do a lot of 'thinking for themselves' (and also makes it easier for them to understand and learn practical matters).

Talking of 'pass marks' raises an issue (I suppose almost a 'philosophical' one) which I often think about but rarely see discussed. I don't know if things have changed but back in my day the 'pass mark' for degree exams (and also O-Levels {now GCSEs) and A-Levels) were generally in the range 40%-60%, meaning that one could 'pass' having got around half of ones answers 'wrong' (and/or not knowing answers to about half the questions). However, if, by virtue of getting that degree, the person becomes, say, a school teacher, doctor, nurse or whatever, there is then suddenly an expectation that they will 'get right' 100% of everything they do and say.

In just a few safety-critical situations (e.g. driving tests, airline piloits etc.) a single serious error will result in failure, that's fairly rare and, in most walks of life there are a good few people practising trades and professions on the basis of having just 'scraped through' qualifying exams, maybe having got nearly half of their answers wrong!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Murdochcat]

I think the OP should send a link to this thread to this “spark”

He needs re educating

 

[MH731Z]

Indeed - a ubiquitous issue, certainly not restricted to electricians.

Indeed, and the nature of the training is often far less than ideal, concentrating on 'how to pass an exam' rather than starting by teaching the underlying principles, which then enable people to do a lot of 'thinking for themselves' (and also makes it easier for them to understand and learn practical matters).

Talking of 'pass marks' raises an issue (I suppose almost a 'philosophical' one) which I often think about but rarely see discussed. I don't know if things have changed but back in my day the 'pass mark' for degree exams (and also O-Levels {now GCSEs) and A-Levels) were generally in the range 40%-60%, meaning that one could 'pass' having got around half of ones answers 'wrong' (and/or not knowing answers to about half the questions). However, if, by virtue of getting that degree, the person becomes, say, a school teacher, doctor, nurse or whatever, there is then suddenly an expectation that they will 'get right' 100% of everything they do and say.

In just a few safety-critical situations (e.g. driving tests, airline piloits etc.) a single serious error will result in failure, that's fairly rare and, in most walks of life there are a good few people practising trades and professions on the basis of having just 'scraped through' qualifying exams, maybe having got nearly half of their answers wrong!

Kind Regards, John

so to give some context about my history with sparks in the last 5 years

1st guy came to fix a light switch issue ended up breaking the other light and no longer worked
2nd guy came to install power to my shed and ended up causing a fault and the shed never worked
3rd guy I got to install an isolator that allows me to turn the power off fully messed up the cabling and left parts exposed and broken and caused what I later discovered arcing due to badly placed mcb
4th guy I got to supposedly make good ended up also messing it up
5th guy I got to install a new supply to another shed left the blank spaces exposed to can easily get electrocuted and claimed its not part of the quote to certify the board
6th guy I got messed up the EV charger wiring
7th guy I got messed up the ceiling lights and left them loose
8th guy I got is the one I'm talking about here with the shady work

every one of the above exp 8th I ended fixing myself and taught me something about the electrics I learned everything from roses to consumer units and now I'm learning about the zones etc, now I do most of what I need doing but sadly I could not for this rewire as its out of my control due to 'long story factors'

Though I don't get it, I just don't understand why is there so many cowboys ? imo any person that is part of a scheme like the NICEIC should have an automatic process whereby when an NICEIC registered person does work it gets automatically inspected by NICEIC themselves before its signed off its much like building control where work is inspected whilst its being done, otherwise whats the point of them other than taking money from their members like you said.

the 8th guy wasn't cheap, he quoted £5500 without VAT cash price, this is a small 2 bed house and now with no floors or ceilings as everything is exposed at the moment so surely a spark's dream to make good, even the bathroom ceiling is now gone