cable zones

[Murdochcat]

Cash and no VAT - ho hum

More alarm bells

 

[MH731Z]

@JohnW2 you might find this amusing, I argued with that electrician about why he did not install an isolator for the bathroom fan despite him knowing the fan model/manual that specifically states it needs an isolator in their specification.

in his argument he sent me a screenshot of a comment you made on this forum explaining why fans dont need an isolator, the funny thing is in that same screenshot of what you wrote you clearly explained that some do need it lol

long story short we got rid of him, I just thought it was funny he sent me a screenshot of your comment about a fan. I hope he sees this thread...

 

[JohnW2]

[in his argument he sent me a screenshot of a comment you made on this forum explaining why fans dont need an isolator, the funny thing is in that same screenshot of what you wrote you clearly explained that some do need it lol

I obviously don't know what comment of mine he produced, but I'd be surprised if I said that some fans "need" isolators, because that really isn't the case. Many manufacturers say that they do, but the Wiring Regulations certainly don't, and nor is there really any 'electrical' reason.

The only real 'advantage' is that it allows to'work on' or replace the fan with the light still on - but since that is something that one usually only needs to do 'once in a blue moon' I'm not sure it really qualifies as a very strong 'advantage'

 

[Risteard]

so to give some context about my history with sparks in the last 5 years

1st guy came to fix a light switch issue ended up breaking the other light and no longer worked
2nd guy came to install power to my shed and ended up causing a fault and the shed never worked
3rd guy I got to install an isolator that allows me to turn the power off fully messed up the cabling and left parts exposed and broken and caused what I later discovered arcing due to badly placed mcb
4th guy I got to supposedly make good ended up also messing it up
5th guy I got to install a new supply to another shed left the blank spaces exposed to can easily get electrocuted and claimed its not part of the quote to certify the board
6th guy I got messed up the EV charger wiring
7th guy I got messed up the ceiling lights and left them loose
8th guy I got is the one I'm talking about here with the shady work

every one of the above exp 8th I ended fixing myself and taught me something about the electrics I learned everything from roses to consumer units and now I'm learning about the zones etc, now I do most of what I need doing but sadly I could not for this rewire as its out of my control due to 'long story factors'

Though I don't get it, I just don't understand why is there so many cowboys ? imo any person that is part of a scheme like the NICEIC should have an automatic process whereby when an NICEIC registered person does work it gets automatically inspected by NICEIC themselves before its signed off its much like building control where work is inspected whilst its being done, otherwise whats the point of them other than taking money from their members like you said.

the 8th guy wasn't cheap, he quoted £5500 without VAT cash price, this is a small 2 bed house and now with no floors or ceilings as everything is exposed at the moment so surely a spark's dream to make good, even the bathroom ceiling is now gone

Surely you are the common denominator in this. You must be the problem. Where are you getting these people from? The local joke shop?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I obviously don't know what comment of mine he produced, but I'd be surprised if I said that some fans "need" isolators, because that really isn't the case. Many manufacturers say that they do, but the Wiring Regulations certainly don't, and nor is there really any 'electrical' reason.

The only real 'advantage' is that it allows to'work on' or replace the fan with the light still on - but since that is something that one usually only needs to do 'once in a blue moon' I'm not sure it really qualifies as a very strong 'advantage'

Of course that often mentioned spurious reason is of no benefit to the fan therefore should not concern the manufacturer.

As said many times, I am sure (some/most of) the manufacturers just think because the UK has such things they are actually required.

 

[MH731Z]

I obviously don't know what comment of mine he produced, but I'd be surprised if I said that some fans "need" isolators, because that really isn't the case. Many manufacturers say that they do, but the Wiring Regulations certainly don't, and nor is there really any 'electrical' reason.

The only real 'advantage' is that it allows to'work on' or replace the fan with the light still on - but since that is something that one usually only needs to do 'once in a blue moon' I'm not sure it really qualifies as a very strong 'advantage'

I agree there isn't a purely electrical reason for an isolator, I think manufacturers only do this to limit their liability most likely but really its not needed - I only argued this point with that electrician as it was agreed prior to the start of the works that he would install it given the manufacturer required it but given all the issue he has cause this was a very minor one!

 

[MH731Z]

Surely you are the common denominator in this. You must be the problem. Where are you getting these people from? The local joke shop?

usually checkatrade or more recently now niceic - but clearly I'm just unlucky, I suppose on the plus side it taught me alot about electrics now

 

[SUNRAY]

usually checkatrade or more recently now niceic - but clearly I'm just unlucky, I suppose on the plus side it taught me alot about electrics now

EFFIN Checkatrade... It took me 5 sodding years to get removed from their listing as a 'White Goods' repairer, something I have never ever got involved with commercially (strictly only personal!!), all they could ever tell me is that I had been recommended and the first phone call and reply to email they tried to tell me it had to be correct due to their vetting process. I got trading standards involved and finally solicitor through FSB.

Yeah I'd really trust them.

 

[MH731Z]

Hi Everyone

So the second spark is now confused by the light wiring, the setup is basically

• Ground Floor:
  • Hallway Light: One light fixture.
  • Two-Gang Switch:
    • Gang 1: Controls the ground floor hallway light (two-way switching with the first floor switch).
    • Gang 2: Controls the first floor hallway light (two-way switching with the first floor switch).
• First Floor:
  • Hallway Light: One light fixture.
  • Bathroom Light: One light fixture.
  • Three-Gang Switch:
    • Gang 1: Controls the ground floor hallway light (two-way switching with the ground floor switch).
    • Gang 2: Controls the first floor hallway light (two-way switching with the ground floor switch).
    • Gang 3: Controls the bathroom light.

Objective: Both hallway lights can be turned on/off from either floor and independently, and the bathroom light is controlled from the first floor.

The challenge

• Power Supply: Only available at the first floor switch.
• Cabling Between Switches: 2x 3-Core & Earth cables connecting the first floor switch to the ground floor switch.
• Ground Floor Light Connection: The ground floor switch is connected to the ground floor hallway light via a Twin & Earth cable.
• Issue: How to wire the switches and lights using the existing cables to control both hallway lights from both floors.

The 2nd Spark says

how does one liven up the ground floor light when there is no power supply

My Questions,
1. We have two 3 core strappers surely we can extend the neutral to the ground floor switch to power the ground floor light and enable two-way switching for both hallway lights using the available cores ?
2. is this a common setup ?

And finally, is my second spark right to be confused and not know how to fix this ? as his only solution is to make a new chase to bring a new live to the ground floor switch

P.S I'm really losing my mind here, either the 1st spark messed it up or the second spark doesn't know what to do

 

[pete01]

If I'm reading that right you have a twin and earth (probably live and switched live) and a 3 core and earth twice?
If that's correct the 2nd electrician should be able to figure that out.

 

[MH731Z]

If I'm reading that right you have a twin and earth (probably live and switched live) and a 3 core and earth twice?
If that's correct the 2nd electrician should be able to figure that out.

So basically as follows


First Floor Switch (3-Gang Switch)
Total Cables: 5

Cable 1: Twin & Earth (Supply cable )
Cable 2: 3-Core & Earth (to ground floor switch)
Cable 3: 3-Core & Earth (to ground floor switch)
Cable 4: Twin & Earth (to first floor hallway light)
Cable 5: Twin & Earth (to bathroom light)

Ground Floor Switch (2-Gang Switch)
Total Cables: 3

Cable 1: 3-Core & Earth (from first floor switch)
Cable 2: 3-Core & Earth (from first floor switch)
Cable 3: Twin & Earth (to ground floor hallway light)

The spark says he cant make the lights downstairs work as there is no live 'supply'

 

[pete01]

He can do the hallway light the old fashioned way, live to com two cores between L1 and L2 use the other core as neutral and feed the hallway light from com.

 

[MH731Z]

He can do the downstairs the old fashioned way, live to com to cores between L1 and L2 use the other core as neutral and feed the downstairs light from com.

He too is NICEIC registered and has been a spark for 20+ years, I don't understand why he is not doing this, is this setup really that uncommon ?

 

[pete01]

He too is NICEIC registered and has been a spark for 20+ years, I don't understand why he is not doing this, is this setup really that uncommon ?

Not really you're going to end up with the hallway light off the upstairs circuit but it is what it is now.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have not read the whole thread, so:

Ground Floor Switch (2-Gang Switch)

Total Cables: 3

Cable 1: 3-Core & Earth (from first floor switch)
Cable 2: 3-Core & Earth (from first floor switch)
Cable 3: Twin & Earth (to ground floor hallway light)

Has someone shown that cable 3 is not the usual Line(live) and Switched Line from light to switch?