Cameron gets tough on benefit cheats !!!!

[mointainwalker]

@ BT

they might not want to work for same money but should be forced to by JobCentre.

I get really annoyed about reading this type of reasoning: this is not a salary they are earning where it would be sensinible to turn down less money, this is state-provided money intended to help you until you get another job.

i think your sister should not be sympathetically handing out course after course instead of forcing the applicants to take the jobs.

 

[malcolmX]

Welfare benefit scrounger? who exactly is that term aimed at? and who are the accusers?
If someone has worked diligently for 20, 30 years or more and is, through no fault of his own thrown out of work he has no choice but to sign on for JSA unless of course he has money saved up.
We are in the grip of a global recession and Britain is billions in debt which we the general public are being made to pay these debts.
Yet the bankers are back in profit and giving their staff obscene bonuses, they are the ones that got us into this mess so why can't they be made to pay it back?
So when does a genuine unemployed man become a welfare benefit scrounger

 

[Big Tone]

Good point Malcolm and I hope my post does not detract from it..

@ BT

they might not want to work for same money but should be forced to by JobCentre.

I get really annoyed about reading this type of reasoning: this is not a salary they are earning where it would be sensinible to turn down less money, this is state-provided money intended to help you until you get another job.

i think your sister should not be sympathetically handing out course after course instead of forcing the applicants to take the jobs.

Whenever I hear this type of reasoning it is, whether you admit it or not, because you are fortunate not to be on the receiving end of working so hard for some bastard and no reward; least of all get some job satisfaction.

She doesn’t just “sympathetically” hand out courses so they can evade real work. She wants to get people in work so they can feel a sense of pride and restore the self esteem they have lost because they are often treated like low-life, as reflected in their earnings.

Maybe I should clarify, although I thought I made it clear..

I have the utmost contempt for those who can work and could earn a ‘living wage’ but simply refuse to. I would even go as far as to call them vermin or parasites. I have the utmost of respect for someone working behind McDonalds or sweeping a floor, something I did at Woolworths back in 1974 to earn a crust.

But in a so-called civilised nation you should be able to work for money to pay the bills so you can also have, as doctors call it, some quality of life!

I can see that you know your stuff Diane; it’s like listening to my sister. But I’ll ask her anyway later...

 

[diane1]

I can see that you know your stuff Diane; it’s like listening to my sister. But I’ll ask her anyway later...

i only know the stuff thats relevant to the long term mentally ill...your sister will know far more than me!

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Johnd and johnmelad are clearly deluded. Benefit claimants are vermin.

 

[malcolmX]

The fact of the matter is that there are very few worthwhile jobs out there, we are fast moving to a kind of life where machines produce the goods.
A man or womans physical and mental input will no longer be required, they will be deemed too costly and too slow, machines can do the job faster and cheaper.
So those without work are surplus to requirements but they still have to be fed, clothed and housed and have money in their pockets, so what is the answer
We will become a leisure industry, let the machines do all the work and produce whatever we need, simples.
To put a clever, well trained man into a none job is worse than throwing him into jail.
The people who call claiments on JSA scroungers are those people who have been very fortunate to have kept their jobs over the years purely by luck BUT watch them change their tune when THEY are thrown out of work

 

[mointainwalker]

When she calculates what the job pays and takes their bills into account she often comes to the very same conclusion as the job seeker – it isn’t worth doing the job! So she ends up putting them on course, and another, and another…

Well BT, reading the above it still seems to say what I thought you said.

Look at the benefit as a salary and refuse anything similar and the bit about courses also reads like occupying time.

But i have to say I don't have a clear solution how it can be solved.

If benefits are enough to survive at an acceptable level,. then lots of people ( in numbers if not in %) will say sod this for a lark and never try for a job.

The only similar situation I am aware of . and know in detail concerns Germany.

The situation was similar to here in so far as benefits had grown to such an extent that long-term unemployment and youngsters who had never worked was apparently an insoluble problem.

The then Chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder SPD ( like Labour) introduced laws that significantly cut benefits, laid down tough criteria for size/cost of acceptable accommodation, ditto for refusing jobs

This happened in 2003 and caused an incredible row - so bad it split his party, but because he thought it right he stuck to his guns and from about 2005 the foul medicine began to work and numbers working rose significantly.

There was an interesting background to this politico doing something not dictated by opinion polls and that was his party was so far down in the polls ( 23 % ?) that he thought there was not a chance of re-election so chose to do the right thing for the country.

This raft of policies ( called Agenda 2010) caused and is still causing pain - people have killed themselves - but it has had a massive impact on Germany, probably comparable to Thatcher's reforms, but please let's not start on that unless it is in another thread

 

[malcolmX]

Johnd and johnmelad are clearly deluded. Benefit claimants are vermin.

Benefit claiments who are classed as vermin are the people who lay down their lives for this country as and when needed, how dare people refer to them as vermin.

 

[mointainwalker]

@BT

Last mail getting long so second one.

How do you pay a job what it's worth ? What is it worth and how do you measure it ?

Most of the time it's either by the number of satisfactory candidates who apply for a job at a certain salary, or, within an organisation it's priced against another position. But the inherent worth of the job is ??

Another forum I follow out of interest concerns aviation and one of the biggest topics is declining salaries.

Nowadays if you want to be an airline -pilot it will cost you pnds 75 K to get a licence, but since low-cost airlines are so brutal, they want the recruits to pay another pnds 30K to train for the specific plane they fly whereas training used to be paid by employer.

Because so many people want to be pilots, some pilots on smaller low-cost carriers in Europe are earning less than 30 K.

Long way round, I can't see a solution that suits nearly everyone when trying to square the "living-wage/decent benefits/incentivising claimants"
triangle.

When I read of drug-addicts, alcoholics, obese people, stressed-out people - often under 25 per report - I can't accept that it is reasonable to take that as an official reason not to work.

At the very least they ought to be required to provide some pay-back by cleaning litter/derelict land whatever.

 

[mointainwalker]

@malcomx

Posters like the little mouse are a kind of scummy vermin that inhabit forums making provocative comments to see how much commotion they can cause. They are usually recognisable by very short posts .

It's rather like the sub-normal/inadequate kid setting fire to a shed because seeing all the firemen makes him think how important he is

 

[Blasphemous]

Whose the frog? Never seen owt from it before.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

So you are one of the lazy vermin mountainwalker?

Fact is I work hard to pay my bills and provide for my family only to pay 40% tax plus N.I so the braindead, lazy, shameless, vermin can sit on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle allday.


The genuine disabled and ex armed forces injured etc I don't begrudge a penny but there are millions taking the pi$$ out of the system and laughing at the honest working man.

 

[mointainwalker]

The genuine disabled and ex armed forces injured etc I don't begrudge a penny but there are millions taking the pi$$ out of the system and laughing at the honest working man.

Well in that case mouse, your previous post is not very accurate is it ? It might therefore be nice - and fair - to apologise to any people you have unfairly smeared.

As it happens I agree to some extent with you about claimants. Not sure about numbers, maybe 5% to 10%

 

[Deleted member 105431]

The genuine disabled and ex armed forces injured etc I don't begrudge a penny but there are millions taking the pi$$ out of the system and laughing at the honest working man.

Well in that case mouse, your previous post is not very accurate is it ? It might therefore be nice - and fair - to apologise to any people you have unfairly smeared.

As it happens I agree to some extent with you about claimants. Not sure about numbers, maybe 5% to 10%

I would say over 50% of those on benefits are doing so by choice and/or are abusing the system.

 

[mointainwalker]

Whose ( sic) the frog? Never seen owt from it before.

What a greeting ! Hello to you too. Frog by residence only, have to say I like it very much .

Haven't been in GD before, mostly in Building and Plumbing to find out how to repair the castle