Glad to see we are all thinking along the same lines! (That drawing is schematically the same as I posted above!
)
central heating only comes on with h water, stumped engineer
- Thread starter bonkersbill
- Start date
Glad to see we are all thinking along the same lines! (That drawing is schematically the same as I posted above!
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Very good doitall, this makes all the sense now to anyone who couldn't forsee it.
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Looking at the picture, that's a very good point. Good thinking. I can see how it work.
Now we have to wait till op open up the duct and see where the radiator return tee into main return or flow.
Surprise that 4 engineers didn't check pipes layout.
Dan.
Now we have to wait till op open up the duct and see where the radiator return tee into main return or flow.
Surprise that 4 engineers didn't check pipes layout.
Dan.
doitall, since you are very good at the drawing, and posting, you might as well help op with a new drawing if you could suggedsting him how it should have been, and let us hope his problem gets resolved. cheers dude!
View media item 43350
I added some arrows as UpgradeME had them the wrong way round.
Drawing as it should be to follow.
View media item 43351
Drawing as it should be ish.
Note I haven't shown the cold feed and vent.
I added some arrows as UpgradeME had them the wrong way round.
Drawing as it should be to follow.
View media item 43351
Drawing as it should be ish.
Note I haven't shown the cold feed and vent.
Once again my thanks to doitall, for uploading the schematic diagrams, that should help op sort out his heating for once, and as for some, who tried to criticise me for my thought provoking thinking, it actually helped reach a satisfactory conclusion, of course with the help of doitall, without his understanding of what i had said, op would still be scratching his head in the cold. (lol) (no pun intended op)
and as I said through my life long expereince, people often don't pay attention the first time, our minds are laden with endless chores, it regularly becomes difficult to concentrate or think deep, we often overlook good suggestions, or brush them aside, thats my life long expereinec, so insistence often works better, asking the same question twice is often results in a more accurate answer, and as I said I always double check on things, when I can, hence why I say you have to be 200% sure, as the saying goes.
op, let us know when you got it right and having reconnected the plumbing correctly, sadly the worst of the winter is gone, when you would have enjoyed your CH! (lol) now you don't need it, its getteing warmer!
and as I said through my life long expereince, people often don't pay attention the first time, our minds are laden with endless chores, it regularly becomes difficult to concentrate or think deep, we often overlook good suggestions, or brush them aside, thats my life long expereinec, so insistence often works better, asking the same question twice is often results in a more accurate answer, and as I said I always double check on things, when I can, hence why I say you have to be 200% sure, as the saying goes.
op, let us know when you got it right and having reconnected the plumbing correctly, sadly the worst of the winter is gone, when you would have enjoyed your CH! (lol) now you don't need it, its getteing warmer!
just skipped through the last few pages and yes that is a good drawing from doitall, it would certainly explain the poor flowrate through the boiler while on heating only, though the system would never have worked from the begining like that so you would have thought it would have been picked up by now
I take it that we are all agreed now that it looks as though the op needs their pipework sorting as there is poor circulation when on heating only
Matt
I take it that we are all agreed now that it looks as though the op needs their pipework sorting as there is poor circulation when on heating only
Matt
As per my drawing the heating would actually work when the HWS was calling, as the flow through the cylinder opens the circuit through the boiler, albeit reversed.
Although it looks good on paper, the OP still needs to prove the old primary pipes got crossed over during the alterations.
Although it looks good on paper, the OP still needs to prove the old primary pipes got crossed over during the alterations.
Wow, some people really do have their head where it shouldn't be!
- The idea came from 4expaw several pages ago, I drew 4expaw's idea over the top of OPs drawing for consistancy so HE could understand it! (DIA agrees his drawing is the same)Your "thought provoking thinking" had already been covered pages ago and narrowed down to 4expaws idea. There is not yet a "satisfactory conclusion" as this has yet to be proven!
The test I suggested to the OP with the thermometer(s) should prove or discount this theory (unless anyone can think of a reason this test would fail?)
IF the test shows a bigger gap or drops substantially when the 3pv is turned to the mid position (CH&HW), then the OP needs to trace the CH return pipes to find the fault.
OP: For greater accuracy than my earlier test, a measure of the pipe temp leaving the boiler and another of it entering the pump for both HW only and HW&CH mode (on the 3pv) should prove the fault or discount it.
I am not here to bang my head against some people with an attitude problem. These DIY forums where people exchange ideas, suggestions, my thought provoking idea or not, it does not matter, I must have not seen any easrlier posts suggesting who came up with a resolve, so I wonder why it then took another 8 pages or so to still continue to figure out the problem? why did it not then get concluded there and then? but my second reconing did work after all, it does not require any thermometers and just basic skills and common sense, so its a no big deal for me.
If I missed out 4expaws post, my apologies, but my acknowledgement must go to him obviously if he came up with this theory first, I secondede it. So acknowledgement or credit where it is due to 4expaws .
I have joined other forums too, on one I have contributed over 15,000 posts! so you often I stumble across people like you, nothing new, it was almost expected, and hence why I said from the begining, no pun intended, or no disrespect to anyone.
but here are 3 diagrams showing each of the 3 modes of operation and I still firmly believe that his divereter valve is connected as the symptoms of his problem dictate to this conclusion, the rest will of course depend on confirmation from op. i hope he will put this matter to rest once and for all.
EDIT: Indeed this was my thought provoking idea that helped doitall to see what was reaslly happening, I had not seen the pictures op posted so I came up with this based purely what i saw in my head, and not in the picture.
If I missed out 4expaws post, my apologies, but my acknowledgement must go to him obviously if he came up with this theory first, I secondede it. So acknowledgement or credit where it is due to 4expaws .
I have joined other forums too, on one I have contributed over 15,000 posts! so you often I stumble across people like you, nothing new, it was almost expected, and hence why I said from the begining, no pun intended, or no disrespect to anyone.
but here are 3 diagrams showing each of the 3 modes of operation and I still firmly believe that his divereter valve is connected as the symptoms of his problem dictate to this conclusion, the rest will of course depend on confirmation from op. i hope he will put this matter to rest once and for all.
EDIT: Indeed this was my thought provoking idea that helped doitall to see what was reaslly happening, I had not seen the pictures op posted so I came up with this based purely what i saw in my head, and not in the picture.
This is not the same as 4expaws, mine or DIA's theory. It looks like your still suggesting the valve is piped wrong or faulty?
Please help the OP to prove / discount your theory? How should he identify the fault?
If you still haven't read the whole thread, the OP has a ornate ceiling and a new fitted wardrobe covering the pipe run and would like to prove the fault without ripping these out! He has already changed the valve and there are also pictures of the valve, pump and some pipework in the OP's profile.
Agreed Mikes drawing would not be right.
4expaws mentioned what we later sketched out although I didn't read it.
Upgrade me altered the drawing but had the arrows wrong and I didn't take much notice unfortunately.
I originally got the idea from the OP's sketch and wondered if it was really like that and actually question him about it. I then did the rough sketch and went to snooker, and forgot all about it till Mike touched on it with his post.
What you have between you is a valid reason for what could indeed be the problem, so pat on the backs all round I think.
4expaws mentioned what we later sketched out although I didn't read it.
Upgrade me altered the drawing but had the arrows wrong and I didn't take much notice unfortunately.
I originally got the idea from the OP's sketch and wondered if it was really like that and actually question him about it. I then did the rough sketch and went to snooker, and forgot all about it till Mike touched on it with his post.
What you have between you is a valid reason for what could indeed be the problem, so pat on the backs all round I think.
Actually proving the theory is very simply.
Remember I said the primary pipes would have been gravity, so all you need to do is, set the MV in the mid position, turn the boiler to low, and disable the pump.
Hang around the cylinder and see which pipe gets hot first.
I would say now the idea is on the table, there's a good chance the boiler end was altered correctly, and they simply got the flow and return crossed over in the cupb, they may even be marked, the right way.
Remember I said the primary pipes would have been gravity, so all you need to do is, set the MV in the mid position, turn the boiler to low, and disable the pump.
Hang around the cylinder and see which pipe gets hot first.
I would say now the idea is on the table, there's a good chance the boiler end was altered correctly, and they simply got the flow and return crossed over in the cupb, they may even be marked, the right way.
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