Death penalty

[ajohn]

I know many people with Autism not one would do this, that is not an excuse.

My wife has handled a number that no one would dream of giving access to a knife or anything similar. It's a spectrum disorder that can have a wide range of degrees and some very strange characteristics especially in relationship extreme behaviour as all sorts of rather strange things can cause incidents of this. They'd appear strange to us anyway.

Me I wonder if an extremer case can usefully use a normal school without some one noticing or even if they should be there.

I suspect a clue on why can be found by looking at studies of US school shooting and why the person did it. That appears to relate to bullying and social interaction problems maybe even romance. I didn't look hard just noted one in Britannica

School shooting | Definition, Examples, Causal Factors, & Facts

School shooting, in the typical case, an event in which a student at a school shoots and injures or kills at least one other student or faculty member on the grounds of that school. Although school shootings occur worldwide, the United States has been the scene of the vast majority of the attacks.

www.britannica.com

Dated and there may be multi page PDF's around.

 

[adlplumbing]

So we agree mental ill health can cause unpredictable behaviour.
So a murder, by someone suffering mental ill health, wouldn't be premeditated.

Yes agreed, as that not a cause for political/religious grounds (terrorism)
Also not for gain, or bumping someone you know off, for personal reasons, or seeing if you can. (Which southport might be)

 

[MNW67]

I know many people with Autism not one would do this, that is not an excuse.

I also know quite a few people with autism. Even with the wide spectrum, I can not see that as the cause.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Yes agreed, as that not a cause for political/religious grounds (terrorism)
Also not for gain, or bumping someone you know off, for personal reasons, or seeing if you can. (Which southport might be)

What causes people to try to burn down hotels full of people?

 

[Brigadier]

What causes people to try to burn down hotels full of people?

A lack of brain, failing in life but not accepting the responsibility for that, wanting to feel part of something......

.... and Carling (Black Label, for you older posters).....

 

[adlplumbing]

What causes people to try to burn down hotels full of people?

feel free they can go.

 

[JonathanM]

What causes people to try to burn down hotels full of people?

feel free they can go.

I'm not being awkward, but I don't fully understand this reply.

 

[adlplumbing]

I'm not being awkward, but I don't fully understand this reply.

simple, I can see why they could be done in the law as terrorists, thus I am happy for them to go, into forever dark place.

 

[big-all]

the trouble you have is if an option is death then you will get throttle back on judges and juries not saying guilty as most perhaps 80+percent will not wish the death outcome so counterproductive and very guilty people being reprieved
you need a justice system based on the fairly neutral middle 80% rather than the extreme10% or the over forgiving 10%
yes some will be pure evil and death may be fair but placing that burden on free thinking judges and other good people may give a very wrong skewed answer off not guilty so will down play as death is too extreme

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

the trouble you have is if an option is death then you will get throttle back on judges and juries not saying guilty as most perhaps 80+percent will not wish the death outcome so counterproductive and very guilty people being reprieved
you need a justice system based on the fairly neutral middle 80% rather than the extreme10% or the over forgiving 10%
yes some will be pure evil and death may be fair but placing that burden on free thinking judges and other good people may give a very wrong skewed answer off not guilty so will down play as death is too extreme

If the death sentence is an option for judges, or life imprisonment, the judges will probably choose life imprisonment.
In fact, if the judiciary was in general anti-capital punishment, the death sentence would be rarely, if ever, pronounced.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

you need a justice system based on the fairly neutral middle 80% rather than the extreme10% or the over forgiving 10%
yes some will be pure evil and death may be fair but placing that burden on free thinking judges and other good people may give a very wrong skewed answer off not guilty so will down play as death is too extreme

The jury determine guilt, and extent of guilt - the judge determines the sentencing based upon the verdict.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The jury determine guilt, and extent of guilt - the judge determines the sentencing based upon the verdict.

And if they were right 100% of the time, it would be a different argument.

But whilst there are miscarriages of justice it clouds the issue.

 

[adlplumbing]

And if they were right 100% of the time, it would be a different argument.

But whilst there are miscarriages of justice it clouds the issue.

we are talking about clear cut, Lee Rigby killers, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady that sort of ilk.

 

[JonathanM]

we are talking about clear cut, Lee Rigby killers, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady that sort of ilk.

That's why I think the only workable solution would be to follow my suggestion of having a separate and higher standard of proof for the death sentence e.g. "beyond all possible doubt"

 

[carmanmemoranda]

we are talking about clear cut, Lee Rigby killers, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady that sort of ilk.

But the point is.

Who actually decides it is clear cut?

We've seen guilty sentences that are wrong. How does the state decide its clear cut, its almost clear cut, its not clear cut, it's definitely not clear cut?

Guilty means clear cut, or doesn't it ?