EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

You're correct in that he had the 12v battery connected to the charger. He purchased the Prius new from the local Toyota dealer in 2009 and the vehicle was taken in and checked multiple times. As he rarely exceeded 30 mph and covered less than 3k a year, the technology was just not fit for [his] purposes. However, after his passing, taxi drivers were very happy to pay top dollar for the car, of course.
Therefore, is there a general consensus here that EVs are not necessarily suitable for occasional drivers?

No. if anything there are folk on here who will tell you that EVs are ONLY suitable for occasional drivers!

I've heard tales of the 12V battery going flat (there are instructions in my EV handbook on how to "jump start it!) if left for long periods - just like an ICE, really.

 

[Avocet]

This EV problem may have been aired already but with 141 pages to wade through I thought I would mention the issue any way.
A colleague of mine has a top of the range BMW EV. Absolutely superb car and performance BUT BUT BUT and another BUT.
He had to attend a Meeting which required a 250 mile trip and a overnight stay in an Hotel so could recharge overnight, So apparently no problem, the hotel had Slow charging facilities.
He arrived at his destination no problem at all as planned. The recharge would take around 12 hours again no problem. He then got a telephone call from his wife detailing a health emergency and for him to return home ASAP. He couldn't as his car was out of charge and was not capable of doing the 250 mile return journey and needed a full charge to do it, so he was stranded. Unable to attend to the medical emergency.
SImilar situation could arise to anyone, so beware of the EV's considerable issues.

I've had that same situation. Got back from somewhere with the car relatively flat, only to find that my dad had had an accident and managed to cut a couple of fingers off with a circular saw in Liverpool, 150 miles away! at first, I thought I'd just take Mrs. Avocet's diesel and leave the EV, but in the end, I took the EV an fast-charged t. It made about 15 minutes difference to my journey time. If it had been a life-and-death thing, I'd have taken the diesel, but the hospital assured me that he was in no immediate danger.

In 40 years of driving, that's the first time that's happened to me.

 

[Avocet]

The person involved is No Idiot, he is a highly educated, professional person who planned his journey meticulously, but a medical emergency is totally unexpected which cannot be planned by its very nature. You are certainly mis-informed regarding EVERY service station having fast chargers. Many service station dont have any and many more have chargers which are in use or are unavailable.
I am a fan of EV's but they have their limitations and long journeys is one of them.

I took middle sprog back to university on Saturday. 484 mile round-trip in an EV, in a day. I do smile when people tell me how you can't do long journeys in an EV...

 

[morqthana]

Well that makes a pleasant change from old curmudgeons moaning about how complicated modern engines are, and how impossible to work on, and how they'll all end up being scrapped before 50,000 miles because of an "ECU fault"!

I'm afraid the ICE is, after 100+ years of development, very much on the flat bit of the improvements curve. Already, manufacturers are looking at the new "Euro 7" emissions regulations and saying "sod this, we're going EV"! There really is very little left to be had out of the ICE. Gains these days are small numbers of percentage points - sometimes, fractions of a percentage.

You can't have it both ways on electric motor development either. You're currently claiming it's "untried and untested", yet the anti-EV brigade love to tell us that EVs were tried 100 years ago and abandoned!

Try this thought experiment:

Imagine we'd always had EVs, and then somebody invented the ICE, and was trying to get people to use it to power cars.

So he explains how it works, talks about all the rotating, and reciprocating parts, and yes there's vibration, but most of that can be engineered out. Oh and it'll need adjustable gearing, as it doesn't work well over a wide range of speeds.

Yes, bits will wear out, so it will need regular servicing.

The noise? Well, yes, they're noisy, but it's a wonderful noise.

No, you can't refuel it at home - the fuel is too dangerous to store anything more than a tiny emergency supply at home.

Yes, there are fumes and emissions from burning the fuel - people will have to get used to that.

I wonder how well he'd get on.

 

[morqthana]

A couple of interesting videos:

 

[Avocet]

Try this thought experiment:

Imagine we'd always had EVs, and then somebody invented the ICE, and was trying to get people to use it to power cars.

So he explains how it works, talks about all the rotating, and reciprocating parts, and yes there's vibration, but most of that can be engineered out. Oh and it'll need adjustable gearing, as it doesn't work well over a wide range of speeds.

Yes, bits will wear out, so it will need regular servicing.

The noise? Well, yes, they're noisy, but it's a wonderful noise.

No, you can't refuel it at home - the fuel is too dangerous to store anything more than a tiny emergency supply at home.

Yes, there are fumes and emissions from burning the fuel - people will have to get used to that.

I wonder how well he'd get on.

Indeed. And that's before you tell them how much the fuel is going to cost and before you tell them that in winter, they'll have to drive it a few miles before the heater starts working, and they'll have to scrape the ice off it themselves instead of tapping an app on their phone while they have their breakfast! You'd also have to warn them that they were a greater fire risk than what they'd been used to, but it's still a pretty low risk...

Then you'd say: "...but guys! It's not all downsides! Look, you'll be able to drive it non-stop for 600 miles and you'll be able to tow big things further"!

They'd look at you a bit weird and say "yeah, but how many people do that"?!

 

[Brigadier]

The other problem is that the EV infrastructure won't BE developed if people don't buy EVs. The government has left it largely to the private sector to come up with the infrastructure. They won't do anything if there isn't a business case.

But what the government can do is make the UK energy-secure, by tapping into the wind, tides, and solar with which we are replete.

Loadsa 'leccy

 

[Brigadier]

The average mileage at scrappage has steady increased over the last couple of decades.

Which could be explained - at least in some part - by better and more faithful adherence to servicing, fixing, and enforcement of consumer rights, and the general tightening of peoples' belts (running cars longer than before) than by actual reliability gains.

 

[Avocet]

Which could be explained - at least in some part - by better and more faithful adherence to servicing, fixing, and enforcement of consumer rights, and the general tightening of peoples' belts (running cars longer than before) than by actual reliability gains.

I'm not sure. Certainly during the post-Covid market disruption when the supply of new cars was restricted by the microchip shortage, Covid and the Ukraine war, people hung on to their cars and second hand prices went mental. But arguably, they were only able to hang on to them for longer because they were more reliable / durable? When I was a kid "round the clock" was a big event for a car and 10 years was a good innings. These days, they have an extra digit on the odometers and the average age at scrappage is closer to 15 years.

 

[Brigadier]

I'm not sure.

Neither am I, but placing 100% of the change on one factor among many seems to err towards "confirmation bias"-type reasoning.

 

[Brigadier]

A couple of interesting videos:

EVs are not suitable for everyone.
Which is not the same as "EVs are not suitable for anyone".
The stats - for how far people drive, how often, at what times, and where they live - support EVs being the most sensible and practical transport mode for a lot of people though.

And, I could listen to James May for hours on end

 

[robinbanks]

EVs are not suitable for everyone. Which is not the same as "EVs are not suitable for anyone".

It's a good point. Subway trains aren't for everyone either - I can't even imagine how I'd fit one on my driveway, but millions of people in London appear to eschew commuting in cars, in favour of using one to get to work

 

[Brigadier]

It's a good point. Subway trains aren't for everyone either - I can't even imagine how I'd fit one on my driveway, but millions of people in London appear to eschew commuting in cars, in favour of using one to get to work

Thanks, Robin

My point - which I didn't clearly make in the post - was that the naysayers often use the fact that EVs are not for everyone, as a nuclear option towards scrapping of EVs for everyone.

My opinion? I'll stick with my EV, coz it suits me.
If anyone wants to stick with their ICE; fine, coz that doesn't affect me.

But naysayers using utterly fictitious / once-in-every-fifth-blue-moon scenarios to make out that EVs don't make sense..............they're just ideologically anti-EV, but won't admit it.

 

[Ollyfp]

Thanks, Robin

My point - which I didn't clearly make in the post - was that the naysayers often use the fact that EVs are not for everyone, as a nuclear option towards scrapping of EVs for everyone.

My opinion? I'll stick with my EV, coz it suits me.
If anyone wants to stick with their ICE; fine, coz that doesn't affect me.

But naysayers using utterly fictitious / once-in-every-fifth-blue-moon scenarios to make out that EVs don't make sense..............they're just ideologically anti-EV, but won't admit it.

Fictitious? I know I've mentioned this before, but just to reiterate; I'm not comfortable with the casting of aspersions. This forum is better than that, isn't it?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Fictitious? I know I've mentioned this before, but just to reiterate; I'm not comfortable with the casting of aspersions. This forum is better than that, isn't it?

I've had 2 situations whilst being away and urgent medical problems with elderly parents.

I don't have an EV, but can see me having 1 inside the next 5 yesrs

But these emergencies. 1 I was on holiday in Belguim. 2nd I was away via train.

These things happen, regardless of what transport you have. Each situation is handled at the time on the best way possible

Not having an EV just in case you have an emergency is not a valid reason in my book. If you don't want 1 or don't think it's practical, you don't have to have 1. But it doesn't mean they don't make sense if you add up all the advantages and disadvantages.

It's like only having 1 ice car. Do you have a small 1 for most day to day journeys and easy parking. Or a van because you occasionally need to move big bulky items, or a big comfortable family car to go on holiday with lots of luggage.

There is no perfect answer, but you choose on what suits best for most of the time