EV are they worth it?

[robinbanks]

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[robinbanks]

Now I don't do anything while driving

Not even thinking?

Well, I suppose if you don't do it while trolling on the internet..

Solar produces no power

Solar produces nearly everything we have. It creates the wind, it moves the water and it spent millions of years creating the fossil reserves we're burning through.

Every problem you can think of can be addressed by capturing the sun's energy and storing it until needed, just like the precious fossil fuels do, to which you cling so dearly

In the same way I avoid tools that use battery.

I think about you you know, every time I'm on site and have to use a tool that's tied to something by hose or lead, and it gets snagged on something or wrapped around something, or doesn't reach, or pulls the plug out of the socket 20m away down the scaffold, or I have to spend valuable working time just routing it

I won't tell you what I think. Or maybe I already did

 

[ericmark]

I started to watch a myth buster which was claiming mis information was holding back the take up of electric cars, I got half way through and not a single thing was said about any advantage in using electric powered cars, so clearly just a set of wingers.

The adverts are the same, not a single fact given, electric prices are soaring, so unless you can fit solar panels and charge at home, it is not going to work, I look at my own solar array and it is just about enough to run the house, it doesn't as the battery is not big enough, but if I doubled the size of my battery it likely would, but that would only be around 7 kWh, I average around 11 kWh per day from solar, and an electric car has a 200+ kWh battery, I would need a field at the back of the house filled with solar panels to recharge a car, so the power must come from the grid to recharge them, at the moment high demand time is in daylight so charging over night we can have cheap power, but with the growth of EV's and use of solar panels this is likely to reverse, so we are looking at a change in pricing in the future.

We have already seen a change, it was not long ago when super markets were offering free charging while you shopped, that's now gone, and we have seen charge points being turned off due to electric theft, so the gains with electric are being eroded.

 

[IT Minion]

, at the moment high demand time is in daylight so charging over night we can have cheap power, but with the growth of EV's and use of solar panels this is likely to reverse,

That doesn't sound likely to me. PV does give you a duck curve for power use but in the UK it is wind power that does the heavy lifting.

What you will probably see is more smart tariffs that offer cheaper daytime power during the summer months in addition to cheap overnight rates.

PS.

an electric car has a 200+ kWh battery

You should have watched more of that myth busting video.

 

[Avocet]

No, you can't. There is no hydro power in the UK.

I think you'll find that about 3% of our electricity is hydro electric, actually...

Wind generation comes and goes. The generation barely covers the maintenance for the turbines.

That's the weird thing about you! Presumably, you must have internet access in order to post your ill-informed drivel, so it would have been the work of about 20 seconds to go online and check how much of our electricity comes from wind, before shooting your mouth off, and to avoid making a fool of yourself, but for some reason, you didn't...

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network

grid.iamkate.com

Over a THIRD of the country's electricity is wind-generated!

Solar produces no power at least 50% of the year. Of that 50%, power is generated only during the day some of the time. This is incompatible with the need for power during the night when most of the EV's are charging.

Yes, renewables are mostly intermittent in output. So... if only there was some kind of big battery that we could put in a car, so that we could store it for when we needed it, eh? Wouldn't that be brilliant?

It does. Sun energy not reaching the ground/bricks and wasted results in greater need for heating for homes and buildings. Waste means higher demand for electricity.

Ah... yes, now you mention it, that'll be why all those solar farms have electric heaters in the ground to keep it warm...
...oh! Hang on! No they don't...

Yes, the market factored these in, resulting in petrol and diesel being the most efficient fuel-based energies for cars. If the diesel is used for generating electricity for EV's, part of the energy in the diesel is lost to waste. There is less waste if the diesel is used for powering cars directly.

You do realise a diesel engine wastes more than HALF of the fuel going into it, don't you?! They're famously rubbish at being efficient - and petrol engines are even worse!

Watch and learn...

You really haven't a clue about the relative efficiencies of different power sources, have you?

 

[Avocet]

I started to watch a myth buster which was claiming mis information was holding back the take up of electric cars, I got half way through and not a single thing was said about any advantage in using electric powered cars, so clearly just a set of wingers.

The adverts are the same, not a single fact given, electric prices are soaring, so unless you can fit solar panels and charge at home, it is not going to work, I look at my own solar array and it is just about enough to run the house, it doesn't as the battery is not big enough, but if I doubled the size of my battery it likely would, but that would only be around 7 kWh, I average around 11 kWh per day from solar, and an electric car has a 200+ kWh battery, I would need a field at the back of the house filled with solar panels to recharge a car, so the power must come from the grid to recharge them, at the moment high demand time is in daylight so charging over night we can have cheap power, but with the growth of EV's and use of solar panels this is likely to reverse, so we are looking at a change in pricing in the future.

We have already seen a change, it was not long ago when super markets were offering free charging while you shopped, that's now gone, and we have seen charge points being turned off due to electric theft, so the gains with electric are being eroded.

Errr... electricity prices are coming down at present. It's costing me 5p a mile when I charge from the mains at night - and I could get a cheaper tariff still, if I had a smart meter! That's for a three-and-a-half hundred horsepower car, too! Try driving ANY kind of ICE for 5p a mile!

(And no, it doesn't have a 200 kWh battery, it has an 80 kWh battery - and that's quite big by EV standards)!

 

[ericmark]

Yes, renewables are mostly intermittent in output. So... if only there was some kind of big battery that we could put in a car, so that we could store it for when we needed it, eh? Wouldn't that be brilliant?

Yes we have some batteries

that can store a lot of power, and no lithium used. I remember visiting as a lad, with my dad who since he also ran a power station was taken on a personal tour, I think built around 1963 so I was around 14 when we went around, but can't remember much.

Try driving ANY kind of ICE for 5p a mile!

I had a Honda P50 which stated it would do 253 MPG at 15 MPH on a level paved road, which would compare well with my e-bike where a 48 volt 12 Ah battery will take me about 20 miles at around same speed, but the bike needs a lot more physical effort from me, and I would do 60 miles on a tank full Shotton to Towyn when I was a lad, there is no way my e-bike will last 60 miles, and it took minutes to refill the moped, it takes hours to refill my e-bike, and I could find filling stations along the way with the moped, but other than calling in at the railway where I work to recharge battery, I know of no where where I can refill my e-bike on route.

However in the e-bike favour it will fit in the car, my dad's latter Honda would, was it a Z50 or something like that, needed to remove battery, turn off fuel, drain carb, and fold handle bars, but needed a big car.

However to compare electric and liquid fuel one needs a level playing field, and most of the cost of petrol is tax, so not a level playing field, once we all have electric cars, I am sure they will tax the fuel.

 

[Avocet]

Yes we have some batteries View attachment 318008 that can store a lot of power, and no lithium used. I remember visiting as a lad, with my dad who since he also ran a power station was taken on a personal tour, I think built around 1963 so I was around 14 when we went around, but can't remember much.

Fair enough. I guess I could bin my battery and carry a large reservoir full of water and a hydroelectric generator in the car. I'm sure that would be a lot more convenient. In fact, now you've mentioned it I'm surprised the mainstream industry hasn't gone down that road...

I had a Honda P50 which stated it would do 253 MPG at 15 MPH on a level paved road, which would compare well with my e-bike where a 48 volt 12 Ah battery will take me about 20 miles at around same speed, but the bike needs a lot more physical effort from me, and I would do 60 miles on a tank full Shotton to Towyn when I was a lad, there is no way my e-bike will last 60 miles, and it took minutes to refill the moped, it takes hours to refill my e-bike, and I could find filling stations along the way with the moped, but other than calling in at the railway where I work to recharge battery, I know of no where where I can refill my e-bike on route.

However in the e-bike favour it will fit in the car, my dad's latter Honda would, was it a Z50 or something like that, needed to remove battery, turn off fuel, drain carb, and fold handle bars, but needed a big car.

However to compare electric and liquid fuel one needs a level playing field, and most of the cost of petrol is tax, so not a level playing field, once we all have electric cars, I am sure they will tax the fuel.

I'm not really sure how you can compare a 300+ horse 5 seater saloon car with a 50cc moped in one sentence, and then demand a level playing field in another?!

I very much doubt that they will be able to tax domestic electricity used for charging cars, to be honest. I think they'll just move to pay-per-mile taxation for all vehicles.

 

[JohnD]

an electric car has a 200+ kWh battery, I would need a field at the back of the house filled with solar panels to recharge a car,

Only if you drive so much that you use 200kWh every day.

For a low mileage driver, you might supply all or much of your motoring needs from panels.

 

[DiyNutJob]

I didn't know it myself. Apparently, EV drivers are seen as to$$ers.

 

[Avocet]

I didn't know it myself. Apparently, EV drivers are seen as to$$ers.

Every now and then, I wonder what kind of gullible to$$er falls for this rubbish, and then, you come along on post it...

So... let me get this right then... EVs spy on our every move and relay massive amounts of data to their manufacturers, but there's "no way of knowing the health of individual battery cells"? What a Muppet! That's exactly the sort of data the Battery Management System transmits! Anything amiss and you'll be contacted by the dealer asking you to come in and get it looked at, because it's in their interest to replace a couple of duff cells, rather than a whole battery under warranty!

I loved the bit where he can't resist the little dig at wind turbines sometimes having to be switched off because there's nowhere to store the extra electricity, and then goes straight back to his ill-informed anti-EV rant. I wonder how long it will take for the penny to drop that you can store electricity in...

...EV batteries?

Or the fact that he can't carry as much stuff in an electric truck because of the weight of the batteries, BUT the electric truck was going to be heavier and do more road damage. Sorry, but he's going to have to pick one or the other! Either he can't carry as much stuff for the same laden weight (in which case road damage won't be an issue), or he can carry the same amount of stuff but road damage will be greater, if the government were to raise the permitted laden weight. He can't have it both ways!

About the only thing he said that I agreed with, is that he didn't understand much about vehicle emissions...

If this is where you get your information, no wonder you come across as being so ill-informed!

 

[ericmark]

I have kept an open mind, however I started to watch a youtube video which was claiming most the negative comments are a myth, got half way through and not a single fact was given, and the same with adverts, it says "Who says" then does not give the answer.

But clearly after a bump the battery will need changing, so yes accident repair costs go up, so I looked up the price clearly varies, but looking at around £6000 so yes he has a point, slightest bump will cost over £6000 to repair.

Anything amiss and you'll be contacted by the dealer asking you to come in and get it looked at, because it's in their interest to replace a couple of duff cells, rather than a whole battery under warranty!

All I have read up to date, you can't replace a single cell, it's an all or nothing job. All cells must be the same condition so it may be possible to make one good battery out of two, but one one would risk it.

But I still use an e-bike with a lithium battery.

 

[mointainwalker]

E

Or the fact that he can't carry as much stuff in an electric truck because of the weight of the batteries, BUT the electric truck was going to be heavier and do more road damage. Sorry, but he's going to have to pick one or the other! Either he can't carry as much stuff for the same laden weight (in which case road damage won't be an issue), or he can carry the same amount of stuff but road damage will be greater, if the government were to raise the permitted laden weight. He can't have it both ways!

About the only thing he said that I agreed with, is that he didn't understand much about vehicle emissions...

If this is where you get your information, no wonder you come across as being so ill-informed!

I see one fault in your logic in that the unladen weight of the EV truck will be significantly greater, so will be causing more damage whenever running without load.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Every now and then, I wonder what kind of gullible to$$er falls for this rubbish

A few still buying ev's, so plenty still about.

 

[Avocet]

I have kept an open mind, however I started to watch a youtube video which was claiming most the negative comments are a myth, got half way through and not a single fact was given, and the same with adverts, it says "Who says" then does not give the answer.

But clearly after a bump the battery will need changing, so yes accident repair costs go up, so I looked up the price clearly varies, but looking at around £6000 so yes he has a point, slightest bump will cost over £6000 to repair.

All I have read up to date, you can't replace a single cell, it's an all or nothing job. All cells must be the same condition so it may be possible to make one good battery out of two, but one one would risk it.

But I still use an e-bike with a lithium battery.

The battery packs are extremely well-protected. The manufacturer has to crash several cars to get his type approval, without the battery shorting or going up in smoke. So yes, after a significant crash, the battery might need replacing, but all this talk of "minor bumps" is just scaremongering. It would be like saying that after a minor bump, an ICE fuel tank would need replacing. Insurance companies are just panicking. Any new development is the end of the world as far as they're concerned. It was the same when cars with metallic paint started to appear. You'd never be able to touch-up a metallic, the whole car would have to be re-sprayed... It was the same when cars with structural aluminium bodyshells started to emerge - they'd all be written-off for the slightest parking knock, no bodyshop would touch them, nobody had the necessary skills or training... Nowadays, they hardly turn a hair...

If you fell off your e-bike, would you replace the battery?



And yes, cell replacement is possible. There are companies already actually doing it, and others setting up to do it:

https://cedarelectric.co.uk/electric-and-hybrid-battery-repairs/

Tailor-made solutions for end-of-life EV-batteries

Tailor-made solutions for end-of-life EV batteries across Europe. We are a network of Europe’s top national battery collection systems.

www.reneos.eu

Charging ahead: the UK IP set to dominate the EV battery repair market

Autocraft EV Solutions has pioneered how to repair and remanufacture EV batteries at scale, safely and sustainably. Doing so unlocks enormous opportunities for the company while reinforcing the UK’s international standing for engineering innovation. Jonny Williamson reports.

www.themanufacturer.com

Some Teslas have the cells glued in place, which makes them near-impossible to replace but I think Tesla will probably learn that less at some point...