General Election 4th July

[JohnD]

The search for an honest Conservative continues.

Did Boris sack them all?

"A Conservative parliamentary candidate under investigation over a bet placed on the timing of the UK election is married to the party’s director of campaigning, according to Tory officials.

Laura Saunders, a Conservative staffer who is standing for election in Bristol North West, is being investigated by the Gambling Commission over an election-related bet, people familiar with the matter said.

Separately, two party officials said that Saunders is the wife of Tony Lee, the Conservative director of campaigning. On Thursday morning a Conservative party spokesperson said: “The director of campaigning took a leave of absence from CCHQ yesterday.”

 

[ellal]

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[Harry Bloomfield]

We have no less than 9 different parties/candidates, the one I voted for the past two times, is no longer a candidate, so I am now, very much a 'floating voter'. None of them, are particularly convincing.

 

[ajohn]

The greens manifesto is interesting. Larger amount of money. Some direct tax increases Large amount from some sort of green tax which I assume they think wont get passed on to the public.

Like Libs, Reform pundits don't think they will raise as much as they think. Less doubt about Tory and Labour but things rather tight.

Oh well as they say they wont win anyway so no harm in voting for them. Might be a way of influencing Labour voters. They are bound to win so some wont bother voting. That comment is so consistent I suspect that is what they are really at.

Fararse is now doing Reform's TV add. Usual Britain is broken comments. The hook - £20,000 tax allowance. Final one - this election is about immigration. He overstates the population level differences 2010 to 2024. The £20k limit would probably cause another Trussaster. No mention that visa immigration is going to drop who ever gets in as visas run out and the new rules come in.

Solution to the resident increase in population since 2010 - pass maybe he will shoot them or stick something in their water. Fact is that the rate of increase in population from immigration is going to drop so he isn't really offering anything. As they leave the population will drop.

 

[JohnD]

reform, libs, greens and cons can spout any fantasy they want

because they know they won't be in government and faced with the reality of trying to deliver their promises.

 

[ajohn]

because they know they won't be in government and faced with the reality of trying to deliver their promises.

It's an attempt to swing votes. One effect is that if pundits say the numbers don't stack up it doesn't matter as they wont get to do it anyway.
The other one is a sort of project fear. Don't allow Labour to get a super majority - vote for who ever you like but not them.

I see his approach as being rather disturbing but anything goes in politics even if it only changes voting by small amounts. Better still pick a couple of different factors that attract different types of voter. Current favourites are tax and immigration.

Some media are realising that they aren't used to reporting on this style of election. They always concentrate on money. The situation in the UK means that neither of the main parties can offer much in this general area. More typically pundits look for how much extra bunce the gov has collected and say expect a tax cut.

So there isn't much discussion about policy changes. An example. Labour intend to mess with the general eduction system to train people for specific jobs at various levels. Why. Some visa entrances are intended to fill jobs as we don't have suitably trained people. They are not just rabbiting on about higher tech apprenticeships. Any area in the job market only offers a certian number of places. They have a number of policy changes buried in their manifesto. Like the Tory they have to consider the economic aspects. Also both need real growth to allow significant changes.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Fararse is now doing Reform's TV add. Usual Britain is broken comments. The hook - £20,000 tax allowance. Final one - this election is about immigration. He overstates the population level differences 2010 to 2024. The £20k limit would probably cause another Trussaster. No mention that visa immigration is going to drop who ever gets in as visas run out and the new rules come in.

When doing a science experiment you often have a 'control.' It's a pity we don't have a control (parallel universe) earth that we can rewind to show what would or wouldn't have happened under certain conditions.

What I mean is this. Some are keen to blame immigration for almost all the ills currently being experienced in the UK. It would be useful to rewind the control earth a decade, apply the condition of zero immigration into the UK, then fast forward again to the present day to see how many of the aforementioned ills are either nonexistent or significantly mitigated.

I highly suspect many of the issues would still be nearly as bad e.g. housing, healthcare, education, lack of jobs etc.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

When doing a science experiment you often have a 'control.' It's a pity we don't have a control (parallel universe) earth that we can rewind to show what would or wouldn't have happened under certain conditions.

What I mean is this. Some are keen to blame immigration for almost all the ills currently being experienced in the UK. It would be useful to rewind the control earth a decade, apply the condition of zero immigration into the UK, then fast forward again to the present day to see how many of the aforementioned ills are either nonexistent or significantly mitigated.

I highly suspect many of the issues would still be nearly as bad e.g. housing, healthcare, education, lack of jobs etc.

You can of course compare immigration pre and post brexit. And the type of immigration.

 

[ajohn]

Immigration interests me but not in the same way as some others. Eg the Tory have accepted that we do need some and have changed things to suite. Fact of life which is why that Labour policy I mentioned interested me.

Like Farage I blame the Tory for some of it eg visas. I see signs of the usual. Great idea look what happens when we open the gates for say educational ones. Loads of extra money for universities and wow we can grab some of them when they are qualified. Make it easy for them to gain citizenship. Then comes the usual. Whoops need to put some controls in. Why didn't they think about this initially or introduce them earlier. LOL I'm married to a retired teacher, The number of policy changes are interesting, Fact is if there has been educational changes it wont be easy to be fully aware of what did it. Another factor. Some experienced teachers can't wait to get out of it. Fortunately replacements aren't that hard to find.

Add Brexit has considerably increased interest in immigration. Also the boats. Not a good way to get a balanced view. Some of it is over but still a good topic to hang on too. Sunak - we will cap it. Hang on they will vote on numbers each year. If that doesn't fit needs this wont work. What sort of cap is this? So at one point they had to introduce this

Seasonal Worker visa (Temporary Work)

How to apply for a visa to come to the UK for temporary seasonal work - eligibility, documents you'll need, and the application process.

www.gov.uk

Labour and houses. I think an end to just councils filling up gaps easily through planning and a move to a larger scale ideas. New town style but may not be those just bigger house building areas with facilities as needed.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Then comes the usual. Whoops need to put some controls in. Why didn't they think about this initially or introduce them earlier. LOL I'm married to a retired teacher, The number of policy changes are interesting, Fact is if there has been educational changes it wont be easy to be fully aware of what did it. Another factor. Some experienced teachers can't wait to get out of it. Fortunately replacements aren't that hard to find.

Whoa whoa whoa, you're not expecting government and/or local council to do anything logically and with due diligence are you?

Part of the challenge is our current setup. New broom sweeps clean and all that. As you've touched on, anyone who works or knows someone who works in the NHS, education or 'for the council' and where said person has worked there for years/decades, will hear them say about all the changes they've seen come and go, strategic and policy changes that are supposed to be for the better but rarely produce the desired result.

How often on tv progs like QT do we hear audience members say 'parties need to work together on this' and politicians on the panel will say how parties do often work together but it's not seen in the pantomime that is weekly PMQs.

Although it maybe goes against our current political setup (government, opposition, the also rans) surely it would make sense to come up with cross-party LONG TERM strategies on things like health, education, transport, energy. Strategies that need to be continued even if the governing party changes.

Otherwise we end up with the situation we have at present. Change after change, rarely for the better it appears, or conversely nothing much changing at all because no one can agree.

Of course there would be scenarios where a long term cross-party strategy might need to be amended, perhaps significantly so, however in many ways the current approach just isn't working.

 

[ajohn]

GP's are up in arms. Some can't get jobs. The gov have made more money available - think £1.4b but they can employ what ever services type they like but not a GP. Nurses, physios, dispensers fine.

A health centre type GP set up is already likely to have these but in many cases they will need to be built. The intent now seems to be to offload GP work in 2 of these areas. It could finish up as a triage type system where patients need to assume the diagnosis is correct. A&E may do this sort of thing but different - situations allowing a doc appears a soon as the triage is finished,

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I'd love to see more cross party involvement on long term plans and investment, infrastructure etc.

Another reason for PR, some of the other parties would be getting involved

 

[ajohn]

LONG TERM strategies on things like health, education, transport, energy. Strategies that need to be continued even if the governing party changes.

Often some of the previous parties ideas continue. There is often a common thread.

Labour's basic idea is no more sticking plasters. Only look for long term fixes.

Starmer came up with one example. Every winter the NHS has a crisis, No more sticking plasters, we need a fix. This got a cheer from the crowd. Tough task but if no one tries to target the problem it just continues.

The others - as per any other democratic country politicians have one major aim - to get elected. Sometimes populations choose the wrong one. Eg Trump when it seems Biden has managed to add 15m jobs to help fix the problems Trump left.

 

[ajohn]

Another reason for PR, some of the other parties would be getting involved

Didn't work for the LIbs did it. Sorry etc. There is a fundamental problem that exists all over the world.

Labour appear to have aims to do something with the OBR. No policy announcements unless they have been involved first. Write it into law - don't know. Economics has all sorts of problems as changes come about down to general conditions in the world but some sort of control is needed.

I think the main problem is people. I'll take a Lib example. Water pollution. Create a super powerful water body. Fines etc and whatever. Bit of a problem. The water companies are commercial companies. There dividends need to satisfy share holder or the value will decrease. That is loosing money so they get sold making things worse, A regulator which there is can do nothing what so ever about this aspect. They will keep profits as low as they can. So people avoid reality and complain about the dividends that have been paid out.They have been around for a pretty long time now.

Today the Libs came up with an even better one. Blue flag the rivers so they can't discharge into them at all. What will they do - store it in tanks? Fact is rivers are polluted in other ways. Chicken farms, slurry and other things put on farming land and washed off. These have to be tackled at source. Tricky.

Fact is to fix this area money needs to be spent. Business has a habit of favouring loans as spare cash lying around isn't doing anything useful. Best keep that to a minimum.

 

[ellal]

I'd love to see more cross party involvement on long term plans and investment, infrastructure etc.

Another reason for PR, some of the other parties would be getting involved

PR absolutely allows a broader consensus to be formed, not the constant switching between short term self serving political bickering from both sides...

Anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't want a democratic parliament, or simply doesn't understand the concept of a democracy!

And let us not forget...

Most of those countries that the UK 'helped out' by removing the various regimes that were deigned to be 'wrong'uns' had PR imposed on them as what is called the best form of democracy...

But what is good enough for them could not possibly be allowed here!