Get the Tories Out!

[Pat ex]

What's the point in you posting info on a party who's declared objectives are clearly mission impossible.

This might be a big mistake by me, ajohn.
I've given you a 'like' because that's the kind of short, sharp posts that make sense and people read. It's just not like you.

Now comes the big mistake: why are the objectives not achievable?

I have no axe to grind, I'm not even 100% sure which party we are referring to, I think it's the Reform party, who I would not be even considering supporting.
I'm genuinely interested in finding out which objectives are not achievable and why.

Apart from that, the forum seems a little quiet.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

This thread proves that discussing politics online is a pointless waste of time.

Far too many are just nailed to whatever gang they feel they belong to, probably whatever party their dad voted for too, everything else is terrible on principle and actual policies are almost irrelevant.

I'd like to see a system where you get blocked from voting for an election if you vote for the same party three times, as you're clearly not thinking about it if you do this. I'm joking obviously, but those who just keep voting for the same old people will keep getting the same old rubbish, and ensuring that the rest of us have to keep putting up with politicians who don't actually serve the public.

It's easy to rubbish any party's policies. The hard bit is justifying why the lot whose flag you happen to wave is better, most probably can't.

The irony.

You want change, but then keep on about more of the same.

As for an open mind about who to vote for, you have already decided. Genuine open minds wait until election time, review all the manifestos and then decide.

The only thing to be certain about is that this current lot of Tories need to be voted out, even if it's just to give them time to "reform". Currently they are just self serving and that is disastrous for the country, as is obvious looking around .

If you think your party is the answer just post the details, not the headline soundbites, for us all to read. But I've asked for that before.

 

[noseall]

This thread proves that discussing politics online is a pointless waste of time.

You'd be more convincing on Mumsnet, I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

You reckon. Pushed to the right by ideas initially adopted from communism and abandoned yonks ago even by Putin in many areas. Even Corbyn didn't want to bring them back. Labour's view in some of that area is that ok lots have been privatised - is that ideal for all?
When he was asked about the health area he suddenly got less specific but implied periodic cuts. For that read inadequate funding etc at times and difficulty in recovery to how it should be when taken too far or even maintaining standards at some level.
The Poles ware interesting. The USA now has little problems with Mexicans according to the interviewer as their middle classes have improved their position. Probably mentioned as that is a fundamental aspect of the EU, Probably why the interviewer mention it. Being ex Soviet state does have it's problems but any member could have vetoed them joining and didn't.Here is his view on the E

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:...t not when the whole of the UK is considered.

At least one could understand what Roger Scruton was on about!

I'd like to see a system where you get blocked from voting for an election if you vote for the same party three times, as you're clearly not thinking about it if you do this.

I'd like there to be a way of kicking out elected politicians who don't implement the manifesto policies they were elected on.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

"You'd be more convincing on Mumsnet, I'm sure. "

QED

 

[noseall]

"You'd be more convincing on Mumsnet, I'm sure. "

QED

QED indeed. However, before you go - try and make your semi-educated waffle more convincing. There is an attention span problem on this forum, you know.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I have noticed. Thanks for the "semi-educated" compliment, that's probably high praise around here, unless "educated" was meant as an insult.

Anything beyond "Tories out" is a bit beyond the level of discussion here. But I'll give it a try anyway, it's fun if nothing else...

Don't the young socialist revolutionaries notice just how young most of the labour supporters are? Why would that be?...

- It's a new thing that's just been invented? (Clue: It's definitely not)
- People turn nasty as they get older and stop caring about the poor? (but from what I've seen, older people are usually kinder and more considerate than younger)
- Socialism is just a phase that young people go through, that most people grow out of once they gain the life experience to appreciate its massive shortcomings?

I won't go into the shortcomings, they should become obvious if you think about any of it for more than five minutes and I've probably exceeded the typical attention span already.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I have noticed. Thanks for the "semi-educated" compliment, that's probably high praise around here, unless "educated" was meant as an insult.

Anything beyond "Tories out" is a bit beyond the level of discussion here. But I'll give it a try anyway, it's fun if nothing else...

Don't the young socialist revolutionaries notice just how young most of the labour supporters are? Why would that be?...

- It's a new thing that's just been invented? (Clue: It's definitely not)
- People turn nasty as they get older and stop caring about the poor? (but from what I've seen, older people are usually kinder and more considerate than younger)
- Socialism is just a phase that young people go through, that most people grow out of once they gain the life experience to appreciate its massive shortcomings?

I won't go into the shortcomings, they should become obvious if you think about any of it for more than five minutes and I've probably exceeded the typical attention span already.

more anti Labour stuff. Fair enough.

but I thought you wanted to extoll the strengths of Reform rather than just an anti Labour rant.

and then you complain about the level of discussion.

you started the praise of Reform . Why don't you educate us all ?

but I've asked that before

 

[JohnD]

Don't the young socialist revolutionaries notice just how young most of the labour supporters are?

You are mistaken

Unless you think that a party whose members are predominantly beyond retirement age is normal and healthy.

In which case you are also mistaken.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

90% protest vote. Their biggest positive is that they're "none of the above", voting for them sends a much more powerful shockwave than spoiling a paper or not voting.

Are promising to actually take action on immigration, and they're the one party that hasn't already broken the public's trust over this issue, after Blair opened the floodgates and the tories did nothing to stop it.

Will leave the ECHR, which makes the govt powerless to stop immigration and also does nothing to protect most people's human rights, e.g. the govt has recently pretty much banned all protests but the ECHR has done absolutely nothing about it. But threaten to deport a drug dealer and they'll be all over you.

Hopefully they'll get enough seats to reform the voting system.

There are probably more, but I'm not an expert on their policies and frankly that's enough for me.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

You are mistaken

Unless you think that a party whose members are predominantly beyond retirement age is normal and healthy.

In which case you are also mistaken.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of the point you're trying to make, but...

How Britain voted in the 2019 general election | YouGov

YouGov conducts one of Britain's biggest ever post-election surveys to chart how the nation's political character is shifting

yougov.co.uk

Looks a lot like young&daft vs old&wise, unless anyone's got any different theories as to why people start off socialist when they're young then switch sides?

Unless, as I said, socialism is new, or old people are just nasty. And I don't think either of those is true.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

90% protest vote. Their biggest positive is that they're "none of the above", voting for them sends a much more powerful shockwave than spoiling a paper or not voting.

Are promising to actually take action on immigration, and they're the one party that hasn't already broken the public's trust over this issue, after Blair opened the floodgates and the tories did nothing to stop it.

Will leave the ECHR, which makes the govt powerless to stop immigration and also does nothing to protect most people's human rights, e.g. the govt has recently pretty much banned all protests but the ECHR has done absolutely nothing about it. But threaten to deport a drug dealer and they'll be all over you.

Hopefully they'll get enough seats to reform the voting system.

There are probably more, but I'm not an expert on their policies and frankly that's enough for me.

Tories promised to control immigration. Haven't done it. No sign of any plan. What's Reforms plan ?

Last protest vote was brexit. Has that worked out any advantage or just made us more divided. ( sorry for bringing br exit into it, so let's not debate that bit) ?

not sure the bit about supporting drug dealers is true. Anything to back it up with? Human rights are very important. take them away at your peril, it will only favour a certain part of society.

but you do have 1 point. It's based on protest, not on benefits or advantages. Not sure that helps though

 

[JohnD]

"most of the labour supporters " is what you said.

 

[JohnD]

"The average age of full members has actually nudged up from just under 51 to just over 51"

I suppose that seems young to you.

 

[ajohn]

"most of the labour supporters " is what you said.

As people age it looks like Tory rant get more of a hold in people's heads. Possibly increased income related maybe? That wouldn't make much sense as they are increasingly in need of the tax take - NHS aspects.