Get the Tories Out!

[Ivor Windybottom]

"The average age of full members has actually nudged up from just under 51 to just over 51"

I suppose that seems young to you.

You're the only one that's mentioned party members, they're usually oldies in all parties.

I stated supporters, i.e. the young idealistic dreamers who vote for them.

Labour always grows in popularity while not in power, partly because many naturally dislike whoever's currently in power, but also partly because every election there's a new crop of young voters who don't have any adult memory of Labour being in power so haven't experienced the reality of what they actually deliver, so are more likely to believe whatever they promise. Even if labour don't win this time, they'll probably still hang around and vote for them the next time and beyond, mostly just until they get to experience the reality of them actually being in power, then they see the light.

They promise flowers, rainbows, sunshine and fairies. Easy to promise, impossible to deliver.

 

[Notch7]

who don't have any adult memory of Labour being in power so haven't experienced the reality of what they actually deliver

maybe your memory isn’t very good:


the last Labour govt delivered:

strong growth
reduced NHS waiting times
more police
more teachers
shorter waiting times for GPs
sure start
min wage
took a million children out of poverty
reduced pensioner poverty.


how does that compare to the last 12 years of Conservative power?

 

[Notch7]

They promise flowers, rainbows, sunshine and fairies

Tories have offered 6 ”growth plans” in the last 12 years.

Tories have delivered: stagnating wages, slow growth, massive transfer of wealth from workers to capital

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You're the only one that's mentioned party members, they're usually oldies in all parties.







I stated supporters, i.e. the young idealistic dreamers who vote for them.







Labour always grows in popularity while not in power, partly because many naturally dislike whoever's currently in power, but also partly because every election there's a new crop of young voters who don't have any adult memory of Labour being in power so haven't experienced the reality of what they actually deliver, so are more likely to believe whatever they promise. Even if labour don't win this time, they'll probably still hang around and vote for them the next time and beyond, mostly just until they get to experience the reality of them actually being in power, then they see the light.







They promise flowers, rainbows, sunshine and fairies. Easy to promise, impossible to deliver.

You're the only one that's mentioned party members, they're usually oldies in all parties.

I stated supporters, i.e. the young idealistic dreamers who vote for them.

Labour always grows in popularity while not in power, partly because many naturally dislike whoever's currently in power, but also partly because every election there's a new crop of young voters who don't have any adult memory of Labour being in power so haven't experienced the reality of what they actually deliver, so are more likely to believe whatever they promise. Even if labour don't win this time, they'll probably still hang around and vote for them the next time and beyond, mostly just until they get to experience the reality of them actually being in power, then they see the light.

They promise flowers, rainbows, sunshine and fairies. Easy to promise, impossible to deliver.

just more anti Labour rants.

you say you want change, but you don't really.

any details of reforms policies? No answer expected, I've asked it before

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Labour, or more particularly Gordon Brown, were responsible for the appalling PFI deals that were signed for the NHS. Instead of doing the right thing and actually spending on hospitals, they got private property companies to build them with the NHS as a sitting tenant. This will cost many times the amount it would have cost to have paid for it ourselves, and is largely responsible for the massive amount the NHS now has to spend just to keep its head above water.

PFI was basically a privatisation of the NHS from under its feet, all done to keep the amount off the government's balance sheet so hiding the massive amount of spending they'd committed to for future years, and resulting in huge profits for those private companies that got in on the deal. Definitely nothing like the sort of sharey carey socialism they preach.

This is just one example of the sort of short-termism and waste that results from Labour, and the gulf between what they promise and what they actually deliver.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Labour, or more particularly Gordon Brown, were responsible for the appalling PFI deals that were signed for the NHS. Instead of doing the right thing and actually spending on hospitals, they got private property companies to build them with the NHS as a sitting tenant. This will cost many times the amount it would have cost to have paid for it ourselves, and is largely responsible for the massive amount the NHS now has to spend just to keep its head above water.

PFI was basically a privatisation of the NHS from under its feet, all done to keep the amount off the government's balance sheet so hiding the massive amount of spending they'd committed to for future years, and resulting in huge profits for those private companies that got in on the deal. Definitely nothing like the sort of sharey carey socialism they preach.

This is just one example of the sort of short-termism and waste that results from Labour, and the gulf between what they promise and what they actually deliver.

more anti Labour ranting.

so you definitely don't want change, fair enough, but stop pretending that you do.

any details of Reform policies yet ? I've asked that before though

 

[Pat ex]

Labour, or more particularly Gordon Brown, were responsible for the appalling PFI deals that were signed for the NHS. Instead of doing the right thing and actually spending on hospitals, they got private property companies to build them with the NHS as a sitting tenant. This will cost many times the amount it would have cost to have paid for it ourselves, and is largely responsible for the massive amount the NHS now has to spend just to keep its head above water.

PFI was basically a privatisation of the NHS from under its feet, all done to keep the amount off the government's balance sheet so hiding the massive amount of spending they'd committed to for future years, and resulting in huge profits for those private companies that got in on the deal. Definitely nothing like the sort of sharey carey socialism they preach.

This is just one example of the sort of short-termism and waste that results from Labour, and the gulf between what they promise and what they actually deliver.

So the Tories looked for ways to relinquish the government's burden of PFI?

David Cameron’s 2012 act, which blew the service into marketised fragments which were forced by law to compete rather than cooperate. The 2012 act opened up all contracts to private tenders.

The NHS is facing the hardest winter in its history, and still the Tories vandalise it | Polly Toynbee

The health and social care bill has been sabotaged by government ideologues still in thrall to privatisation, says Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee

www.theguardian.com

Except they didn't.

 

[Notch7]

This is just one example of the sort of short-termism and waste that results from Labour, and the gulf between what they promise and what they actually deliver

PFI was started by Major and continued by Cameron.

So your anti Labour rant is also an anti Tory rant.


What do you mean “gulf between what they promise and what they deliver”

Labour invested massively in NHS and lowered waiting times
Labour promised: educatio, education, education - and they invested massively in education.


If you would like to look at Tory short termism or Tory gulf between what they promise and what they deliver, we can have a look at that.

 

[JohnD]

Labour...

Conservatives have been in power for over 12 years.

Have they sorted it out yet?

 

[ajohn]

Gordon Brown, were responsible for the appalling PFI deals

When that is mentioned critically there is never any mention of all of the aspects the PFI offers.

The builder of one hospital went bust - bit odd that isn't it.

 

[Notch7]

Conservatives have been in power for over 12 years.

Have they sorted it out yet?

according to some, the last 12 years is all the fault of Labour.

 

[ajohn]

PFI was started by Major and continued by Cameron.

The alternative is gov debt. The set up in many areas is a different version of PFI. Include power etc. Gov guarantees the debt on those but doesn't take it on itself.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

This thread is exactly what the labour/tory coalition want, people arguing about which variation of crap is best.

Your gang's worse than my gang, bla bla etc. They're both useless, proving that the tories are useless doesn't prove that labour are wonderful or vice versa, this is the tedious, idiotic and pointless level of debate they want us to have. Divide the people and conquer them.

Vote for party A, they turn out to be terrible, so vote for party B, more of the same crap so vote for party A again, repeat for ever.

This garbage is exactly why I'll be protest voting for Reform, just to shake things up. But as it happens much of what they're saying makes sense. They're being falsely labelled as "right wing" by the establishment, in reality they're promising to nationalise the energy industry, which is far more socialist than Sir Kier is promising.

 

[Justin Passing]

This thread is exactly what the labour/tory coalition want, people arguing about which variation of crap is best.

Your gang's worse than my gang, bla bla etc. They're both useless, proving that the tories are useless doesn't prove that labour are wonderful or vice versa, this is the tedious, idiotic and pointless level of debate they want us to have. Divide the people and conquer them.

Vote for party A, they turn out to be terrible, so vote for party B, more of the same crap so vote for party A again, repeat for ever.

This garbage is exactly why I'll be protest voting for Reform, just to shake things up. But as it happens much of what they're saying makes sense. They're being falsely labelled as "right wing" by the establishment, in reality they're promising to nationalise the energy industry, which is far more socialist than Sir Kier is promising.

WHat would it cost to nationalise it though. Remember we don't own it. That's EON, EDF, Npower, Scottish power, SSE

Then there's all or most of each of a load of ports like Tilbury, Hull, Felixstowe, Dover, Southampton.... and Heathrow, Gatwick, Edinburgh, Bristol, Aberdeen and Belfast airports, then all the property they sit on and don't use, including the hoped-for Chinese embassy in the wrong place, property inside Windsor Great PArk. It's everywhere you look - 40 per cent of Sauchiehall and Buchanan Street in Glasgow....

 

[JohnD]

people arguing about which variation of crap is best.

That's what the OP started it for. It worked on you.