Immigration Crisis

[motorbiking]

You were aware of where they started, and what time, and at what speed?
I'll await the investigation conclusion.

Assuming they were competent enough to know which way to point their boat - Yes its easy to calculate.

 

[Pat ex]

Assuming they were competent enough to know which way to point their boat - Yes its easy to calculate.

What speed were they doing?
What time did they start out?

 

[motorbiking]

It would depend how long they waited to call for help. The alarm was raised at 1pm. Lets assume they got in to trouble not more than 30 mins before. Around 5-7kts, (given vessel, load, motor and wave height, wind, tide). Around 11:30AM +- 30 mins.

Setting out in such a vessel in F7-8 was pretty unwise. They perhaps wrongly concluded a following wind would be helpful, but it would have produced 1.5m waves across the stern of their vessel and this may have caused the pontoons to separate at the transom (but that is just a guess).

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Who were exploited mostly for what they had around them.

It was a two way street. They got a lot out of it too - eg. rule of law, clean water, sanitation, roads, jobs, cars, entertainment, modern medicine and hospitals, greater life expectancy, trade and commerce - the list is endless. Yes the colonials gained a bit too. Can you blame them? Would you risk your life and schlep all the way across the high seas to deepest, darkest Africa, etc, etc for nowt. Less bleeding heart and more logic needed please. It may be fashionable to villainise the white man, but that's just following the pathetic liberal herd.

 

[ajohn]

it depends how you want to view/frame it.

Time frame his most recent claims relate to is when they were about to escape from us. Sewers are especially interesting. Water supply is in some cases as well.
The other problem that often crops up is lines on maps formed by colonialism. Also those formed from wars as well. Little regard to ethnic groups living in what they leave.

 

[fillyboy]

Setting out in such a vessel in F7-8 was pretty unwise.

Indeed. In a force 5-6 occasional 7 (forecast was 4-5 occasional 6) from Port Madoc to Aberystwith, I found myself praying to my mum and atoning for my sins. And that was in a solid 27 footer.

 

[Pat ex]

It would depend how long they waited to call for help. The alarm was raised at 1pm. Lets assume they got in to trouble not more than 30 mins before. Around 5-7kts, (given vessel, load, motor and wave height, wind, tide). Around 11:30AM +- 30 mins.

Setting out in such a vessel in F7-8 was pretty unwise. They perhaps wrongly concluded a following wind would be helpful, but it would have produced 1.5m waves across the stern of their vessel and this may have caused the pontoons to separate at the transom (but that is just a guess).

Your guesses, on speed, time of departure, are pure guesses and are coloured by your desire to place the boat in French waters.
I'll wait for the result of the investigations.

Yes, crossing the channel in an overloaded DIY dinghy is not wise, nor safe, nor legal. But the policy of the UK leaves no alternative for asylum seekers trying to claim asylum in UK.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Don't think you need a war to be conscripted, as the link I provided earlier illustrates.

Sweden have national service I believe

 

[Pat ex]

It was a two way street. They got a lot out of it too - eg. rule of law, clean water, sanitation, roads, jobs, cars, entertainment, modern medicine and hospitals, greater life expectancy, trade and commerce - the list is endless.

Murder, genocide, mutilation and brutality, torture, enslavement, poverty, disease, large-scale national land grabbing, political imprisonment, racial segregation, forced labour, famine, massacres, violent coercion, etc.
Yes the colonisation of Africa brought a lot of things to the African people.

Yes the colonials gained a bit too. Can you blame them? Would you risk your life and schlep all the way across the high seas to deepest, darkest Africa, etc, etc for nowt. Less bleeding heart and more logic needed please. It may be fashionable to villainise the white man, but that's just following the pathetic liberal herd.

Yes the colonial powers gained slaves, diamonds, gold, vegetable oils, gum, ivory, hides and skin, palm oil, copper, rubber, cotton, tea, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, etc.
Bu they brought misery, poverty, epidemic disease, enslavement, apartheid, and brutality, and you call it a two-way street.

You'd best put your fingers in your ears, and cover your eyes because the truth will hurt.

 

[Odds]

EU ministers endorse new migrant plan...

European interior ministers welcomed a European Union plan to better coordinate the handling of migrant arrivals after a furious dispute over a refugee rescue boat erupted between Italy and France. The numbers of asylum seekers are still far lower than the levels of 2015 and 2016, but the dispute has already undermined a stop-gap pact to redistribute arrivals more evenly around the 27-nation bloc.

The previous plan was drawn up after Mediterranean countries closer to North African shores, like Italy and Greece, complained that they were shouldering too much responsibility for migrants.

A dozen EU members agreed to take in 8,000 asylum seekers – with France and Germany accepting 3,500 each – but so far, just 117 relocations have actually happened. Schinas also recalled that international maritime law already obliges EU member states “to do what is necessary, which is save people’s lives”, in their national search and rescue areas.

While France and Italy argue about high-profile cases of dramatic sea rescues in the central Mediterranean, other EU capitals are more concerned about land routes through the Balkans. Almost 130,000 undocumented migrants are estimated to have come to the bloc since the start of the year, an increase of 160 percent, according to the EU border force Frontex.

 

[motorbiking]

Your guesses, on speed, time of departure, are pure guesses and are coloured by your desire to place the boat in French waters.
I'll wait for the result of the investigations.

Yes, crossing the channel in an overloaded DIY dinghy is not wise, nor safe, nor legal. But the policy of the UK leaves no alternative for asylum seekers trying to claim asylum in UK.

My only guess was the cause of the vessel failure.

Everything else is known using historic tide data and weather. The type and typical speed of the vessel is known. The time the alarm was raised was known. The EP at the time of alarm was also reported. Maydays and mayday relays usually provide lat and long. Therefore without knowing the location of departure I can place them in French waters (which seems to be the view of MAIB).

Hence this is why they have not yet done their own investigation.

You seem to assume that because you don't know how to do it, nobody else does.

 

[motorbiking]

Indeed. In a force 5-6 occasional 7 (forecast was 4-5 occasional 6) from Port Madoc to Aberystwith, I found myself praying to my mum and atoning for my sins. And that was in a solid 27 footer.

I was once caught in a 45kt WAZ in the canaries - waves around 10m. I was not living my best life.

 

[Pat ex]

My only guess was the cause of the vessel failure.

Everything else is known using historic tide data and weather. The type and typical speed of the vessel is known. The time the alarm was raised was known. The EP at the time of alarm was also reported. Maydays and mayday relays usually provide lat and long. Therefore without knowing the location of departure I can place them in French waters (which seems to be the view of MAIB).

Hence this is why they have not yet done their own investigation.

You seem to assume that because you don't know how to do it, nobody else does.

You can't know their time of departure, their speed is a pure guess, and your guesses tend to be coloured by your desirable outcome.

And the way to stop incidents like this is to provide safe and legal routes, but people like you refuse to even consider them.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

My only guess was the cause of the vessel failure.

Everything else is known using historic tide data and weather. The type and typical speed of the vessel is known. The time the alarm was raised was known. The EP at the time of alarm was also reported. Maydays and mayday relays usually provide lat and long. Therefore without knowing the location of departure I can place them in French waters (which seems to be the view of MAIB).

Hence this is why they have not yet done their own investigation.

You seem to assume that because you don't know how to do it, nobody else does.

Good to see you have finalised your own investigation.

To save time and money please forward your results to the authorities

 

[Odds]

You can't know their time of departure, their speed is a pure guess, and your guesses tend to be coloured by your desirable outcome.

And the way to stop incidents like this is to provide safe and legal routes, but people like you refuse to even consider them.

You really are The Humanitarian, aren't you.
Let's seperate the legal migrants from the illegal immigrants for a moment and try to avoid conflating the two,,.
What 'safe and legal' routes do you suggest the govt. provides for illegal immigrants; other than the ones already in place for legal traffic, that is.