Immigration Crisis

No! You are trying to persuade others, on social media that the boat never entered UK waters, and sad loss of life was the fault of the French entirely.
Instead of waiting for the results of the official investigation.


Of course you did, in order to support your prejudicial opinion.
Show me one credible source that supports the idea they made it to U.K. waters?

And I don’t blame the French rescue services apart from telling them wrongly to call the U.K. the reason they drowned is because 33 people set off in an unseaworthy vessel.

They cannot assume that someone will help them despite their own stupidity
 
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Be my guest, see post #235
I don't think the investigation has finished yet? Unless you have better information ? Not sure how the results have been leaked if so. Probably some parts of it have, not going back looking for something that doesn't exist.

Scoundrel
 
Childish. Try growing up

Proven to be a scoundrel and swerving away

Like most right wing arguments, no substance
 
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Genuine questions @gone

What relevance was the picture to the discussion ? Immigration references?

Why are you so easily swayed by headlines and catchy 3 word phrases ?
 
Posted earlier in thread. But apparently its been edited to blame the French. While there are no credible sources suggesting they got to UK waters some still believe the UK should carry out a full investigation of the emergency operation. I cannot imagine the diplomatic response if the French coastguard attempted to review the UK Southern Coastguard's performance in UK waters. I think they may rightly be told to mind their own business. MAIB clearly don't have jurisdiction here.

It was a tragic loss of life, but the blame starts with the stupidity of crossing the channel with 33 people on board a boat that had very little chance of making the crossing. If they could find the organiser, they could make a manslaughter charge stick. The survivors know who they paid and how they contacted them.

The le Monde article is behind a pay wall, but this is an account of someone there:

It does raise some questions. If you were 5km inside UK waters why would you turn around when you started sinking to make a longer journey to safety? Of course this live track has never been presented and is entirely disputed by all rescue services. Then you have the stupidity of throwing away your mobile phone which assuming it was waterproof and had good signal, was the only thing to help you get rescued. That and pressing on for 45 minutes when your knew you boat was sinking. Add to that, you have a boat in its best state, only able to manage around 5kts (3 hours to the calais dover line). I think its entirely possible that the French rescuers 'mistake' may well be because the illegal immigrants told them (wrongly) they had crossed in to UK waters. Even after so many people are drowning, the witnesses aren't interested in assisting a rescue or revealing the true facts of where they were.
 
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Posted earlier in thread. But apparently its been edited to blame the French. While there are no credible sources suggesting they got to UK waters some still believe the UK should carry out a full investigation of the emergency operation. I cannot imagine the diplomatic response if the French coastguard attempted to review the UK Southern Coastguard's performance in UK waters. I think they may rightly be told to mind their own business. MAIB clearly don't have jurisdiction here.

It was a tragic loss of life, but the blame starts with the stupidity of crossing the channel with 33 people on board a boat that had very little chance of making the crossing. If they could find the organiser, they could make a manslaughter charge stick. The survivors know who they paid and how they contacted them.
simply because the UK were called. It needs an adult joined up investigation. Or we can just assume we had no responsibility. A n open investigation determines, not assumes.

you have told us previously how the French escort them to UK waters, so they must know who the organisers are. And if they were escorted, why did this happen.

Your facts don't always seem to tie up. But that's not new
 
Show me one credible source that supports the idea they made it to U.K. waters?
I don't need to. I've said several times, I'm content to wait for the completion of the official investigation.
In the meantime, I'll continue to call for safe and legal routes, which is the smart and obvious way to both save lives, and money, and credibility.

And I don’t blame the French rescue services apart from telling them wrongly to call the U.K. the reason they drowned is because 33 people set off in an unseaworthy vessel.

They cannot assume that someone will help them despite their own stupidity
Yet the UK refuse to create safe and legal routes. Therefore the only route to claim asylum in UK is to cross the channel in whatever floating device you can find.
 
So you’ve changed your view that MAIB urgently need to complete their own investigation?

In the interview you will see the illegal immigrant was an illegal immigrant. The purpose of his trip was to raise money for his sister to have medical treatment in India.
 
So you’ve changed your view that MAIB urgently need to complete their own investigation?
Is that question aimed at me?
I've never expressed any opinion about how urgent I thought the investigation is.
I have expressed an opinion about the French releasing all their communications to the investigation while the UK refuses to do so.

In the interview you will see the illegal immigrant was an illegal immigrant. The purpose of his trip was to raise money for his sister to have medical treatment in India.
Blimey, you've zoomed back to a completely different thread, about the the Albanian that was deported for being honest.
Aha, I understand what you are referring to, a different article.
Here it is, copied straight from that article. If anyone wants to avoid a paywall, a way I've found, I'm not convinced it always works, is to hit the stop the refresh button (top left of your browser, the ones that turns to
1669573072281.png
as soon as the page is accessed), you have to be quick.
The link provided by Motorbiking does not appear to be behind a paywall.
It shows that the dingy was in UK waters.
CALAIS, France - One of two known survivors of the Wednesday night English Channel boat disaster and a relative of two of the migrants have accused the British coastguard of ignoring repeated calls for help from the drowning migrants while they were reportedly in British waters. In an exclusive interview with Rudaw on Sunday, the survivor detailed the horror as he watched as many as 31 people drown, one-by-one.

"The right side of the boat was losing air. Some people were pumping air into it and others were bailing the water from the boat," said 21-year-old Mohammed Shekha Ahmad, a Kurd who resided in Qaladze town in Kurdistan Region's Sulaimani province until about six weeks ago. "Then after a bit, we called the French police and said, 'help us, our pump stopped working.'"

"Then [we] sent [our] location to the French police and they said, 'you're in British waters'... we called Britain. They said call the French police," Mohammed recounted, visibly distraught from his near death experience. "Two people were calling - one was calling France and the other was calling Britain." The migrants made their calls in English.

A relative of two of the victims, Taha (not his real name), who was in contact with them via Facebook on Tuesday night, tracking their location live, also alleges that the migrants reached British waters. “Forty-five minutes before they drowned, they called and said they were in British waters but could not move. They drowned in British waters and the waves took the bodies to French waters,” the relative, who does not want to be identified for legal reasons, told Rudaw via telephone.

“I believe they were five kilometers inside British waters,” he said. Asked if his relative on the boat called British police, he replied “100 per cent, 100 percent and they [British police] even said they would come [to the rescue].”

Taha said the boat was in French waters when the problems started, but the smuggler forced them to continue moving towards Britain for another 45 minutes. Taha tracked the boat’s movement live on Facebook when the dinghy’s engine stopped working. “I had their live location, but you know the live location is only available for an hour,” he said.

Rudaw English on Sunday evening emailed the British Foreign Office and Maritime and Coastguard Agency to ask if they logged a distress call on the night of the incident. The Home Office responded on behalf of the British government, disputing the account and a spokesperson said in an email to Rudaw English that the incident happened in French territorial waters. The allegations are “completely untrue,” the spokesperson wrote on Monday morning. “Officials here confirmed last night that the incident happened well inside French Territorial Waters, so they led on the rescue effort, but deployed a helicopter in support of the search and rescue mission as soon as we were alerted.” He also advised Rudaw to contact the Coastguard.

Rudaw English again emailed the Coastguard on Monday morning, asking if, six days after the incident, the agency had investigated whether there was a distress call on the night of the incident, and is yet to receive a detailed answer.

Mohammed is adamant that the boat had reached British waters. "The British police didn't help us and the French police said, 'you're in British waters, we can't come,'" he recounted. "Then, as we were slowly drowning, the people lost hope and let go. Then the waves took us to back to France."

"Britain should have come on board [and rescued us] because we drowned in the [English] Channel," he said as he sobbed. "They didn't help us or do anything for us."

Rudaw has pieced together the journey of the migrant boat based on testimony of the survivor and the relative who was in contact with two people on the boat that night.

Mohammed, who survived the harrowing ordeal, appears visibly distraught and fails to remember the age of his sister who was the motivation for his journey. He hoped to make money in the UK to pay for her treatment. This was not Mohammed’s first attempt to reach Britain. He had tried a few days earlier and been rescued by a French vessel.
He said the boat set off sometime between 8:00 to 10:00 pm, local time. Taha, closely following his relatives’ progress online, confirmed the timing, saying that the dinghy went into the water at around 9:00 pm on November 23.
“They started experiencing tube problems around 1:30 British time,
From the link provided by Motorbiking. There is more to the article

Rudaw is a Kurdish media
Rudaw Media Network is an independent media establishment owned by Rudaw for media affairs LTD company.
 
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No you don't need to be an expert,
Time of departure around 11AM
approximate speed 5-6kts + the benefit of around 1kt of tide assistance and a bit of help from the wind.


Its therefore very difficult to believe they ever made it to UK waters. They were barely halfway across French territorial waters. Everything was pushing them towards the UK at the time they got in difficulty.

They were reported to have set off from a beach in Dunkirk which would have made their journey at least 40Nm.

Show me one credible source that supports the idea they made it to U.K. waters?

He said the boat set off sometime between 8:00 to 10:00 pm, local time. Taha, closely following his relatives’ progress online, confirmed the timing, saying that the dinghy went into the water at around 9:00 pm on November 23.
“They started experiencing tube problems around 1:30 British time,” said Taha

OK, not forgetting anything I've previously said about experts calculating the position of the boat, using some of the data you supplied, and relating it to the reported departure time, we have:
They departed about 20.00hrs (British time) 21.00 hrs (French time)
They first got into difficulties at about 01.30 hrs (British time), when they first started transmitting mayday messages.

You estimated their journey to be about 40 nautical miles at about 5 - 6 knots.

We can estimate that they were travelling for about 5 hours at 5 knots, that's about 25 nautical miles.
Distance (nautical miles) = speed (knots) X time (hours).
Well into British waters.
Yes?

For sure there would have been some wind and tide effect, but as you've repeatedly said, that would have been minimal, but clealry sufficient to take them back into French waters, apparently.
 
There were recordings of the french coast guard talking to those on the boats who made emergency calls on the radio ;)

French responsibility

French fault

( *****drels )

But as per usual those in here desperately want it to be the UK s fault

**** **ds
 
There doesn't seem to be any mention of the engine not running. It will have stopped at some point but very probably not when the 1st calls were made.

What ever it's a f'up and it seems these people in this situation use specific ships for rescues.
 
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