Israel..wouldn't we do the same? part2

[oompah]

Any one actually been to the Gaza strip and or Israel to give a birds eye account of what is actually happening rather than what is shown on TV or reported in the press.No doubt atrocitys have been committed by all sides in the argument some well documented and some kept well hidden. History is written by the winners in any conflict it will be the same here no matter how long it takes to resolve.

 

[transam]

My sister was out in the Lebanon in the 80's just before the Israli's invaded she worked for the red cross , as my mother is Austrian she became an Austrian national as they were neutral ( cold war ) she worked in or with the palestinian refugee camp's , that were there at the time she came out before the Israli invasion ! On the odd ocassion's I used to see her she would at any given oppurtunity go on about the injustice's ect , don't get me wrong I love her to bit's & she did what she did good for her , but by the time she had finished u felt guilty for wearing a pair of shoe's , she never got invited to party#s ect much!! people would either clear off , start crying or get there cheque book's out !!

 

[ajstoneservices]

You lost...

I can live with it

 

[ajstoneservices]

Just read through the thread to keep up and everyone is being very civil theres hope for us yet

 

[Lincsbodger]

Just read through the thread to keep up and everyone is being very civil theres hope for us yet

Thats because were english. We english are just so damn civilised. You needed to be this civilised to invent Cricket, thats why we ended up inventing it.

 

[ellal]

Any one actually been to the Gaza strip and or Israel to give a birds eye account of what is actually happening rather than what is shown on TV or reported in the press.No doubt atrocitys have been committed by all sides in the argument some well documented and some kept well hidden. History is written by the winners in any conflict it will be the same here no matter how long it takes to resolve.

Depends what time frame you think relevant...

Israel: 1982, 1985,2008...
Sinaii: 1985
West Bank/occupied territory: 1985,2008

Stayed on several kibbutz's in the 80's for a total of about 10 months, as well as travelling to Jordan and Egypt. I was in one (called Ayelet Hashahar) as the tanks rolled north on the main road outside the front entrance on their way to invade Lebanon..Thought it was cool at the time, but that's the folly of youth !

The last trip was to take part in protecting the right of palestinians to harvest their main crop - olives...Basically what happens is that Israeli settlers regularly try to destroy the olive groves, or stop the picking. The Israeli police/army often won't do anything unless there are 'independant' people around, so there are organised trips to try and stop the settlers behaviour.

This is a little old ( my bookmarks go back further than 1 day ), but it was reports like this that got me interested...

Linky

A quick google brings up these to explain further: Linky

I initially supported Israel (hence the trips in the 80's), but subsequent events and a detailed look at the situation changed my mind...not to mention the obstacles put in the way to visit the occupied territories/west bank now !

It's not Gaza I'm afraid, but even back in the 80's I could only get to Egypt overland via Taba (much further south), and then across the sinai and then north parallel to the suez canal...

I guess that's why I've been so vociferous on this topic...

 

[ellal]

Funny how things can come back to 'haunt'...

From the other thread regarding Israeli's removing any trace of video/audio evidence, a reply from joinerjohn...

Now Ellal is entering the shady fantasy world of conspiracy theories. Because that is all this post is. A wild theory , nothing less nothing more.

Linky Linky

As the crew was ordered to steer a course for the Israeli port of Ashdod, the activists and the Herald team - whose requests for their rights as journalists to be respected by the Israelis were ignored - were taken one at a time to the wheelhouse, where all were stripped of any electronic communications and photographic equipment. The equipment was numbered and all were assured it would be returned to them on arriving at Ashdod......

On arriving at Ashdod the possessions of the activists, media and crew were not returned to them as promised. Instead, everybody was paraded before cameras - in contravention of the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners. Some of that footage later appeared on YouTube.

All who were on the Challenger I were then bundled off to Ella Prison, a two-hour ride in caged wagons where they were held for more than 48 hours and again promised that their possessions would be returned on their release.

All who were on Challenger I were flown to Istanbul on Wednesday - again having been told their possessions had been packed in a container and sent to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport for the flight to Turkey.

But, of all the equipment and possessions of the 17 who had sailed on the Challenger I, all that arrived at the baggage pick-up point in Istanbul was a single computer case of mine, in which there was nothing save a few cables and a handful of laptop accessories.

Unfortunate name of the prison, and an amazing lack of non-Israeli footage appearing isn't there...

And as to the 'fantasy' about removing evidence? From the same source...

'One man's stomach was opened - his intestines were out and the doctor reached inside and pulled out some bullets, before pushing everything back in and wrapping him up.'

And where is that 'undisputed' article about the order of violence?...

In the early hours of Monday, a Herald news team was aboard the Challenger I, the smallest but fastest of six ships in the Free Gaza Flotilla, which came into lethal conflict with the Israeli Navy while sailing in international waters about 110 kilometres north-west of the Gaza Strip and well off the Israeli coast.

As the killing started on the big Turkish ferry, the Mavi Marmara, and it seemed just a matter of time before the other slow boats in the flotilla would be commandeered by the Israelis, the Challenger I's English skipper, Dennis Healey, pushed the 25-metre cruiser to top speed, about 18 knots. Initially, four Israeli Zodiac-like assault boats were tailing us, but they were unable to get close because of the powerful wake Healey was ploughing across the water.

But then the Israelis gave Healey pause for thought. With previous boat runs to Gaza under his belt, he knew what it was like to have his vessel rammed by an Israeli boat, so he cut the motors, allowing the craft to slow to a drift.

 

[securespark]

PLEASE REMOVE.

 

[securespark]

you can't take it with you, so you never truly own it.

So I don't own my house (mortgage paid off) or anything in it (fully paid for)?

its ****, all myths are myths........

Yes, and mine is bigger than both his and his and yours, if you claim one.

So there.

 

[Lincsbodger]

its ****, all myths are myths........

Yes, and mine is bigger than both his and his and yours, if you claim one.

So there.

all of them are myths including the myth that i have a myth and the myth that you dont have one. Clear?

 

[lifesagasman]

I mythed the point of that last post....