The EU Referendum
- Thread starter Freddie
- Start date
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D
david and julie
Thanks Richard, but I reckon Peter may prefer you to be his roll model.
Just been wondering what to spend my 20% tax rebate on as anyone any suggestions?
Just been wondering what to spend my 20% tax rebate on as anyone any suggestions?
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A number of posts here seem worried about the EU taking over. I see it entirely the opposite. I do not see a threat from europe, but from Westminster. Westminster are the people who make the rules about what I can and can not do. Only one lot has any power to stop them, the EU. What I want is a system of government where ordinary people have influence on the decisions made. Failing that, I want the politicians hobbled to reduce their worst excesses. Properly reforming the house of lords would be a good plan, but funnily enough the commons does not like that idea.....
Damocles said:
I dont think people are worried about the EU taking over, if they tried to take over with so many desenting voices in so many member states sooner or later there would be big big trouble.
People are worried about entering some fool hardy idea which so far dosent convince enough people that it is going to do what it is supposed to do, after all if the EU actually worked nobody could complain could they.
You will be able to say what happens, not Westminster when you have a referendum, this terrifies Westminster cause they know they are helpless and it could spell the end for a lot of people.
D
david and julie
But Damocles this is one of the main gripes about the EU, if they bring in directives which are against our interests what can we do?. Much of the EU is unaccountable and you know that yourself.
As you say, by and large what we get at Westminister is rubbish but at least we can eventually change them for different rubbish.
Tony Blairs Iraq is a case in point, the election is our opportunity to punish him. Whereas if this (hypothetically speaking) war was carried out by the EU what could we do about it?
It is impossible for the EU experiment to work without the will of the majority of the people and they don't know if they have that do they?
Well there you go. How am I supposed to punish Tony? By replacing him with someone I judge would do a worse job? cutting off my nose to spite my face? Should I stand myself? would you vote for me? Would I have the remotest chance of winning? nope. Thought not.
Whereas the EU countries on the whole have been against the war. Not against war in principle, but have disputed the false arguments put up by Blair and Bush.
Now, if the war had been an EU idea we might have had a chance of objecting. The 20 or so different governments each has its own intelligence service. Each one would have the chance to dispute the propaganda. In this country, what did we get? The government issued copies of its own propaganda not only to its own side, but to all the other political parties. As far as I know none of them has a network of agents to check out facts for themselves. If France was at risk of being dragged into a war then the gloves would really have been off and they might even have started publishing some facts about Iraq rather than politely saying the Americans were wrong.
Having a decisive government can be useful at times. But there has to be someone prepared to voice dissent.
Whereas the EU countries on the whole have been against the war. Not against war in principle, but have disputed the false arguments put up by Blair and Bush.
Now, if the war had been an EU idea we might have had a chance of objecting. The 20 or so different governments each has its own intelligence service. Each one would have the chance to dispute the propaganda. In this country, what did we get? The government issued copies of its own propaganda not only to its own side, but to all the other political parties. As far as I know none of them has a network of agents to check out facts for themselves. If France was at risk of being dragged into a war then the gloves would really have been off and they might even have started publishing some facts about Iraq rather than politely saying the Americans were wrong.
Having a decisive government can be useful at times. But there has to be someone prepared to voice dissent.
B
Big_Spark
This will start an argument I know, but Freddie and D&J..your talking absolute rubbish....
Chris Patten lost his seat yes, but it was marginal anyway, and the problems caused by the Government as a whole meant he lost his seat..Christ the man lost by about 2000 votes...You claim he weas useless in Hong Kong..well that is not how the Chiense or many of the X-Pats see him..many see him as being handed a poison chalice by Thatcher because no matter what he did, he would look the bad guy..when in fact he was the fall guy...
Kinnock...Well you get no argument from me there..what a waste of genetic material that complete moron was...and as for that ugly moose he was married too....It makes me shiver to think of them as a couple..if you know what I mean....
Peter Mandelson..you claim he was disgraced..by whom might I ask..Oh yes SUN readers...ha fecking ha..He was cleared on both occasions when he was accused of wrong-doing, and this was by a cross party committee that was dominated by the opposition|!!
He borrowed money from a friend..it was a personal loan..who has borrowsed money from a friend and not declared it to all and sundry??
He may have been remise in not mentioning it..but it was hardly a crime and certainly not immoral, the truth is many don't like him because he is a shirt lifter..so long as it isn't your ass he is eyeing up what is the problem??
I know you will both come back with some Christian right Xenophobic anti Homosexual zeal...but then I expect that from you two...
May I ask a question?
Apart from each other...Is there anyone you actually like..as I have not read one nice word from either of you about anyone..living or dead...
Chris Patten lost his seat yes, but it was marginal anyway, and the problems caused by the Government as a whole meant he lost his seat..Christ the man lost by about 2000 votes...You claim he weas useless in Hong Kong..well that is not how the Chiense or many of the X-Pats see him..many see him as being handed a poison chalice by Thatcher because no matter what he did, he would look the bad guy..when in fact he was the fall guy...
Kinnock...Well you get no argument from me there..what a waste of genetic material that complete moron was...and as for that ugly moose he was married too....It makes me shiver to think of them as a couple..if you know what I mean....
Peter Mandelson..you claim he was disgraced..by whom might I ask..Oh yes SUN readers...ha fecking ha..He was cleared on both occasions when he was accused of wrong-doing, and this was by a cross party committee that was dominated by the opposition|!!
He borrowed money from a friend..it was a personal loan..who has borrowsed money from a friend and not declared it to all and sundry??
He may have been remise in not mentioning it..but it was hardly a crime and certainly not immoral, the truth is many don't like him because he is a shirt lifter..so long as it isn't your ass he is eyeing up what is the problem??
I know you will both come back with some Christian right Xenophobic anti Homosexual zeal...but then I expect that from you two...
May I ask a question?
Apart from each other...Is there anyone you actually like..as I have not read one nice word from either of you about anyone..living or dead...
Woh hold Engineer you have the wrong end of the stick here.
Chris Pattern lost his job, so he's out. I had no idea why he ended up in Hong Kong untill you said, all i remember was he was always enraging the Chinese with his statements.
As for my homophobic jokes, i actually did that for a laugh and to wind Richard up. My name isnt Freddie, there were only 2 Freddie's i can remember who called them selves Freddie, one was Freddie and the dreamers, the other wasnt even named Freddie but he was a person who i greatly admired for what he did and how he did it------------meaning i couldnt be against gay people, but like him and unlike you i do have a very good sense of humour, probably why i tolerate Richard
There is something else you have missed in this thread aswell which i think is funny but will now make you angry.
Chris Pattern lost his job, so he's out. I had no idea why he ended up in Hong Kong untill you said, all i remember was he was always enraging the Chinese with his statements.
As for my homophobic jokes, i actually did that for a laugh and to wind Richard up. My name isnt Freddie, there were only 2 Freddie's i can remember who called them selves Freddie, one was Freddie and the dreamers, the other wasnt even named Freddie but he was a person who i greatly admired for what he did and how he did it------------meaning i couldnt be against gay people, but like him and unlike you i do have a very good sense of humour, probably why i tolerate Richard
There is something else you have missed in this thread aswell which i think is funny but will now make you angry.
B
Big_Spark
Freddie....at the end of the Christian right sentence there should have been a
Twas a joke..didn't notice I hadn't put them there...
I personaly don't care if you are or not homophobic, I am not bent so I don't give a stuff to be honest!!
Twas a joke..didn't notice I hadn't put them there...
I personaly don't care if you are or not homophobic, I am not bent so I don't give a stuff to be honest!!
B
Big_Spark
Freddie..I think you and I agree on something...Voting for Blair because there is noone else is a wasted vote...
I have a present for Blair in Canada..he is welcome to use it on Bush and Himself anytime..free of charge
I have a present for Blair in Canada..he is welcome to use it on Bush and Himself anytime..free of charge
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