The EU Referendum

[david and julie]

FWL, I believe we are actually all agreeing on a point here when you said this.

If such a system were set up correctly and it was contolled by clear legislation, then this would work, especially if a true form of democracy was added for the citizens.

This what we are saying, why can't we have a proper vote on the EU? How can we be expected to support something when we have not been asked in the first place?

Damocles excellent choice of word sums up completely what we are trying to say. We don't want more politicians and bureaucrats, we want less. You wouldn't introduce extra layers of management and hence additional cost in your own business, so why let our leaders do it. They are making businesses, especially small ones, uncompetitive in the market place.

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie...regarding the tax situation..actually it is the BRITISH trying to get the EU to raise taxes over Europe..Yes some of the French, Germans, Danes etc want to harmonise tax..bnut this is not the rates we pay..simply the systems of reporting and control so that everyone knows how the tax system works in each country.

At the moment the tax situation in Europe is a huge waste of public money, all nations have their own levels of control and systems unique to them, that are generally at odds with other systems..this causes a lot of the problems and wastage in the overall systems.

In Denmark the tax rate is 50% for all..sounds harsh, but in this country the Tax burden for the average punter is worse, around 62% after you add all the local and stealth taxes..and this does not include the fuel, alcohol and cigarette duties!!

I understand why people feel threatened by an integrated system, but the EU has admitted that it wastes some 2.5 billion Euros a year sorting out differing tax systems in Europe to ensure that payments it makes and recieves are correct and legal.

One of the biggest problems is that many of the nations leaders have been using this issue as a stick to beat the EU with, as have the press, but they have consistantly refuse to show the true picture.

Personally I feel that there is no problem with collecting taxes regionally (in the individual nations), but I do agree that we need to have common standards of taxation to prevent the kind of differences and standards we currently see and the social issues this can create..

It will be far from easy, but it is doable, and all will benefit all. An independant study of this..I'll try to find a link...sindiucated that the average Europeans tax burden could drop by as much as 20% of current levels (as in the amount they actually pay) if such a system was put in place. It also indicated that the EU would save more than the 2.5 Billion it quotes due to outside factors the EU did not take into account.

 

[david and julie]

One could say without the EU you would definately save the 2.5 billion you mention.

I am really looking forward to reading the link which says the EU could save us 20% in taxes. If this is indeed true I may even vote for them. (if we ever get a chance that is)

 

[Big_Spark]

One could say without the EU you would definately save the 2.5 billion you mention.

I am really looking forward to reading the link which says the EU could save us 20% in taxes. If this is indeed true I may even vote for them. (if we ever get a chance that is)

I am trying to find it, will post when I do.

The main prroblem with the EU is that it does not defend itself, but nataional Governments slag it off...Yet they are the ones who decide what it can, cannot and does do..

They are hypocrits who use the EU as a scape goat for their **** policies anda dumping ground for wasted up and ineffective Politicians.

Until the people of Europe force a change, it won't change I am afraid.

 

[Freddie]

One could say without the EU you would definately save the 2.5 billion you mention.

I am really looking forward to reading the link which says the EU could save us 20% in taxes. If this is indeed true I may even vote for them. (if we ever get a chance that is)

I am trying to find it, will post when I do.

The main prroblem with the EU is that it does not defend itself, but nataional Governments slag it off...Yet they are the ones who decide what it can, cannot and does do..

They are hypocrits who use the EU as a scape goat for their s**t policies anda dumping ground for wasted up and ineffective Politicians.

Until the people of Europe force a change, it won't change I am afraid.

Like Neil Kinnock and that bloke who messed up Hong Kong, cant remember his name.

Engineer all of what you are saying does make sense as an idea what to do, but in reality it dont work, it hasnt worked and they have had 30 years to make it work and still no good, just a waste of money.

The billions you mention, i could treble that with bits and pieces here.

To be intrgated further is a big mistake, to join in a union as we did in the 1970's is at its best the thing to do, not to go deeper into the bog ( clue ).

You produce your evidence on how Britain would be better off in the EU future plans and i will show you how more and more of your money is just flittered away.

 

[masona]

Like Neil Kinnock and that bloke who messed up Hong Kong, cant remember his name.

I think it was Chris Patten ????

 

[Big_Spark]

Chris Patten did not mess up Hong Kong...That is absurd...

Thatcher shipped him off to Hong Kong as he was a credible leadership threat, he was not tainted with sleeze or bad decisions, and he companded a lot of respect in the public as a whole and the grass roots party..

It was for this very same reason that Tony Blair broke with convention and appointed Chris Patten an EU commissioner even though he was from the other party..Had Patten been left in the country, then it's almost certain he would have become party leader, and that would seriously damage labours chances at any election...

 

[Freddie]

Chris Patten did not mess up Hong Kong...That is absurd...

Thatcher shipped him off to Hong Kong as he was a credible leadership threat, he was not tainted with sleeze or bad decisions, and he companded a lot of respect in the public as a whole and the grass roots party..

It was for this very same reason that Tony Blair broke with convention and appointed Chris Patten an EU commissioner even though he was from the other party..Had Patten been left in the country, then it's almost certain he would have become party leader, and that would seriously damage labours chances at any election...

Sorry that was my fault, yes that is the man i was referring too. But i remember he lost his seat in an election and was out of a job, so somebody found him one there, but all i remember him doing was trying to enforce the Chinese to do things when they took over, which really did nothing but make him look a prat.

Neil Kinnock an excuse to test Nuclear Weapons on Wales----The Great Welsh Wind Bag who never worked in his entire life since leaving university and claimed to represent the working man. The man who claimed to have reformed the EU, and all he did was cause chaos and take away pensioners rights while getting himself a great pension in the process. And who put him there ?? John Major, the man who put the hole in arsehole----just cant quite get that image of him going at it with Edwina Curry out of my head--------------But the point is and this is the same point as the EU. Politicians are out and look out for themselves, so to believe that the EU is right for you is out with the fairies, it might be right for more politicians, but not you.

 

[david and julie]

Neil Kinnock is a disgrace, he said he would cut EU fraud and then sacked those who reported it. He is also guilty of gross nepotism, every member of his family has or has had a job in the EU.
Like Patten(who was not that popular in Hong Kong according to those I spoke to when there) he was voted out by the public prior to becomming a commisioner.
For their poor performances they have both been given seats in the Lords and Kinnock chairmanship of the British Council. Both more jobs for the boys.
Anyone remember that other useless commisioner Leon Brittan? sacked over dodgy Westland Helicopter affair then given EU commisioner job and then another one sent to the Lords.
Still at least we can be confident in our new commisioner the disgraced Peter Mandleson.

 

[Freddie]

Yes Mandleson seems a bit dodgy

Brings a whole new meaning to jobs for the boys

I wonder who he slept with to get where he is today

Only having a laugh before you all start on me for being homophobic

 

[Richardp]

I think Neil Kinnock would have been a great prime minister, what a shame he didn't get into power, I remember I was so disappointed. So Freddie your having a little joke at the expense of homosexuals, that's ok, its expected I'm grateful none of my kids turned out gay so,s they are not exposed to your homophobic jokes (which reflect on your own sexual insecurities.) at least your honest about your bigoted ideals.Chris Patten ? well he was a failed politician and cried when he lost his over paid job in hong kong.

 

[Freddie]

Well just as i expected, you are so predictable i could put money on you as a dead cert. Wind you up and off you go Richard.

As for Kinnock the man was and is a prize prat, Maggie was spot on when she called him a Welsh windbag.

 

[david and julie]

Chris Patten ? well he was a failed politician and cried when he lost his over paid job in hong kong.

Off course he was hopeless as you say richard. Thats the point I was making, this EU commision looks like a dumping ground for failures. Then they wonder why it isn't working.

I reckon if you were looking for staff, for your own business, you would recruit on success rather than failure.

 

[Freddie]

Chris Patten ? well he was a failed politician and cried when he lost his over paid job in hong kong.

Off course he was hopeless as you say richard. Thats the point I was making, this EU commision looks like a dumping ground for failures. Then they wonder why it isn't working.

I reckon if you were looking for staff, for your own business, you would recruit on success rather than failure.

Very true above.

But Richard would employ all the people with his ideals, who would then form a union---- go on strike and shut his business down

 

[Richardp]

Chris Patten ? well he was a failed politician and cried when he lost his over paid job in hong kong.

Off course he was hopeless as you say richard. Thats the point I was making, this EU commision looks like a dumping ground for failures. Then they wonder why it isn't working.

I reckon if you were looking for staff, for your own business, you would recruit on success rather than failure.

Yes I know that Dave I'm just supporting your remarks.........your my role model