The EU Referendum

[david and julie]

Damocles your long winded reply doesn't answer the main point I was making. Here is the sentence again.

Tony Blairs Iraq is a case in point, the election is our opportunity to punish him. Whereas if this (hypothetically speaking) war was carried out by the EU what could we do about it?

What I am clearly saying and you are avoiding, is what could you do if the EU did the same thing.

 

[Freddie]

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie..I take you probably live in Spain then...

That being the case, why should you care what Britain does, you have no say if you don't live here..I know you do in practice, but not if I were in charge..If you live here, you get the vote..you permanently move elsewhere, you lose it...

 

[Freddie]

 

[david and julie]

FWL this is pathetic.

This will start an argument I know, but Freddie and D&J..your talking absolute rubbish....

Kinnock(Lab)we agree about.

Patten(Con) was voted out full stop, you are either voted in or not voted in the ammount of votes is irrelevant. He wasn't up to much and didn't really care about the ordinary people of Hong Kong. I was in Hong Kong at the time and he was not that popular, except with the wealthier ones.

Peter Mandleson(Lab) got away with his actions because of the (probably deliberate) limited remit of the inquiry, I did not at any stage refer to his sexuality and don't consider it relevant. No I wouldn't have to tell If I borrowed money off anybody but then I'm not in a position where I should, or can help people with "favours" so I don't have to mislead people.

You never mentioned Leon Brittan(Con) you will remember had problems with Westland Helicopters and was dismissed by Maggie.

You will note there are 2 Lab and 2 Tory here, I am not being party political with this.

All I am saying is the commision seems to be a dumping ground for failed politicians. It stinks of jobs for the boys.

 

[Freddie]

I care because i am British through and through.

 

[david and julie]

That was me freddie, they are moves afoot to increase VAT to a least 20% as part of the tax harmonisation plans. We will probably get this within the next year.

The truth is the EU is desperate for more money to finance enlargement. In the past countries have only joined piecemeal. This time it is many more and they are poorer too. There is going to be real problems, the only hope is that they have misjudged the public mood and the massive tax hikes will hopefully bring about the EU's downfall.

 

[Big_Spark]

D&J../I didn't see the need to cover Leon (my back pocket is that way) Britten..

Total shiite as far as I am concerned, he should have gone to Prison for what he did..

 

[Damocles]

So what is wrong with having the same taxes throughout europe? Stops rich people being able to move to where the taxes are less?

There are only two people who just might be prime minister of this country in two months time if we have an election. The only dark horse could be chancellor Brown who concievably might replace Blair.

If I did not like either of these two what choice do I have? In fact I shall almost certainly vote lib dem.

Maggie and Tony might come from quite different political positions but they were both good for the country.

d&J, yes it did. Had this been an EU issue then there would have been much better debate about it and a real chance to challenge the war propaganda. This is basically what happened at the UN and America was sent packing. Not because the EU is democratic, but because it is representative. My problem is not having a war, but having a war based on lies. Lies are very bad for good government.

 

[Freddie]

Well for some reason i thought you pair ( d+J )were in France.

I hope anybody hasnt thought i have misled them, because it wasnt intentional and i know Richard is going to be in his element over this.

But the tax on the profit of your house sale is real IF you vote yes in the referendum as it has to be bought in by the end of the date set for the tax harmonisation.

What this does to house prices everywhere in the EU i dont know, but it will make the investers riun a mile, so i only see a downward price, which means do you/we get out while we can, or do we ride the storm

 

[Freddie]

So what is wrong with having the same taxes throughout europe? Stops rich people being able to move to where the taxes are less?

Nothing mate, except there may be cival unrest in some countries and in others they may go bump, You would also have to have the same input and output in monetery terms as everybody else and thats not what is hapening.

 

[Damocles]

House prices are set by how much people can afford to pay. You are right that capital gains taxes might scare off some investors but mostly the house price bubble is because there is a house shortage. So prices are unlikely to fall.

'fraid I don't see that at all. No one is suddenly going to get huge rises or falls in taxes. Mostly it is just a question of exactly what you tax.

 

[david and julie]

So what is wrong with having the same taxes throughout europe? Stops rich people being able to move to where the taxes are less?

Have a think about what you have said there Damocles. If I may I will slightly change it to reality.I will highlight my changes for you.

So what is wrong with having the same taxes throughout europe? Stops rich people being able to move it around within Europe so we will take out to where we can to where the taxes are less?

Small change in words massive change in investment. Why would the rich leave their money in a high tax area when they don't have to?

There are only two people who just might be prime minister of this country in two months time if we have an election. The only dark horse could be chancellor Brown who concievably might replace Blair.

The election date has been announced do you think Tony is running that scared that he may change his mind?

 

[Freddie]

House prices are set by how much people can afford to pay. You are right that capital gains taxes might scare off some investors but mostly the house price bubble is because there is a house shortage. So prices are unlikely to fall.

'fraid I don't see that at all. No one is suddenly going to get huge rises or falls in taxes. Mostly it is just a question of exactly what you tax.

You missed my point mate, every tax has to be the same if the proposed harmonisation goes ahead after the referendum.

There is no real shortage of housing, only in individual areas usually around capital cities, this becomes more aparent when people are put off speculating in property and buying second homes----as is the norm in some EU countries-----------------basically if someone sells a house and has to pay 40% capital gains tax on profit its a bit of a downer and people may invest in other things like the stock exchange as they did before the recent property boom which has hapened in Ireland, UK, and Spain

 

[david and julie]

House prices are set by how much people can afford to pay. You are right that capital gains taxes might scare off some investors but mostly the house price bubble is because there is a house shortage. So prices are unlikely to fall.

'fraid I don't see that at all. No one is suddenly going to get huge rises or falls in taxes. Mostly it is just a question of exactly what you tax.

You are only talking about capital gains tax here though. I was under the impression in some parts of Europe new housing is subject to VAT.

Is the European Union planning to extend the range of goods subject to Value Added Tax (VAT)?

The growth of EU authority over indirect taxation (VAT) illustrates the danger with EU law - a self-driven and continuous accumulation of power.

Article 99 of the Treaty of Rome called for the harmonization of indirect taxation to ensure "the proper functioning of the internal market" and in 1967 two directives required the adoption of VAT by all member states. The UK joined the Common Market on 1 January 1973 and VAT was introduced in Britain from April 1973.

In May 1977 and again in June 1978 the European Court forced Britain to end exemption and zero rating in several areas including construction of buildings, commercial fuel and power and news services.

The draft of the proposed European Constitution confirms the EU's rights and intentions in this field. Article III, 62 states that "European Law shall lay down measures for the harmonization of legislation concerning turnover taxes, excise duties and other forms of indirect taxation."

In short, Britain is obliged to harmonize VAT with Europe and will be obliged to charge VAT children's clothes, food, public transport, new houses, newspapers and books.

The European Commission intends to enforce the existing VAT system on Internet transactions, imposing a requirement on ecommerce firms to register, collect and account for VAT in the appropriate jurisdiction, even though there is no international agreement or consensus on this issue. (Outside the EU such transactions are free of VAT.) *

If new houses are subject to VAT and old one are exempt you are going to see stagnation in the building trade which is the biggest employer in the UK, which will also lead to further housing shortages.

All this c**p for Abdul and his farm.