The transition to EVs

[JP_]

We do seem very sluggish with infrastructure. I was talking to a retailer last week that works for a Dutch company that is sort of a cross between Currys and Halfords, and a big part of their marketing at the moment is home EV charging points. Neither Currys or Halfords seem to be advertising it, although if you dig a bit you can find the service on Halfords now - https://www.halfords.com/motoring/advice/electric-vehicle-home-charging.html - but it is not being pushed at all for some reason.

How does the cost of charging a car now compare to petrol costs? Electricity has gone up 50%, petrol a bit less than 50%?

 

[IT Minion]

It may be for long distance HGV drivers, but the point remains the same. EV doesn't work yet for long distance HGVs.

Nope, those are due sometime post 2024.

At a later point, the company intends to achieve a range of 700-1,000 km (435-622 miles), which would be truly impressive.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/536333/man-long-range-electric-lorries/

Tesla recon they can do 500 miles. MAN think over 600. Nikola are producing 350 mile units now. Scania have Hydrogen HGVs in use but they're scaling them back in favour of batteries. The future is not hydrogen.

 

[Lower]

Nope, those are due sometime post 2024.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/536333/man-long-range-electric-lorries/

Tesla recon they can do 500 miles. MAN think over 600. Nikola are producing 350 mile units now. Scania have Hydrogen HGVs in use but they're scaling them back in favour of batteries. The future is not hydrogen.

Again, you're ignoring the reality of long distance, motorway speed lorry journeys and energy intensive transport such as refrigerated or chilled foods.

I don't know the answer to long distance HGV transport and whether hydrogen will be viable or not, but battery tech is no where near viable for the mainstream unless overhead power lines can be installed on motorways.

As a frame of reference, i personally know loads of people and companies who are investing in electric cars. I don't know any company that is investing in electric lorries, and as a frame of reference we dispatch about 30 40 ft articulated lorries a week.

 

[ajohn]

The Volvo is 16.7tonnes gross combined weight. A recollect so don't quote me. Axle weight limit is 7tonne, 2 rear axles on many tractors one of which is often a lift and similar on trailers other than lift is unusual. Up to 300km range. 11hr charged time at 22kw, 2hrs at 150kw.

Higher powered Volvo tractor up to 750hp. Min looks to be 550. Electric 174hp. A simple 4x2 can cope with 40tonne, that 4 wheels 2 driven. 6x4 tend to be pretty common.

Wish I could remember the most inefficient set up I came across. Tesco refer as they are called, refrigerated in other words. Getting on for 1/2 of the load was racking.

 

[IT Minion]

Again, you're ignoring the reality of long distance, motorway speed lorry journeys and energy intensive transport such as refrigerated or chilled foods.

I don't know the answer to long distance HGV transport and whether hydrogen will be viable or not, but battery tech is no where near viable for the mainstream unless overhead power lines can be installed on motorways.

As a frame of reference, i personally know loads of people and companies who are investing in electric cars. I don't know any company that is investing in electric lorries, and as a frame of reference we dispatch about 30 40 ft articulated lorries a week.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm assuming that Scania, MAN and so on haven't.

 

[ajohn]

As a frame of reference, i personally know loads of people and companies who are investing in electric cars. I don't know any company that is investing in electric lorries, and as a frame of reference we dispatch about 30 40 ft articulated lorries a week.

It's a problem with politics, Greens say it's simple others say it will be done. What is lacking is truly balanced information.

It's pretty obvious that HGV makers will work on hydrogen although I was appalled by the voltage produced by one fuel cell but that probably doesn't matter. There is no point in making loads until the infrastructure is available. The advantage is rapid refuelling and maybe just maybe life. Volve show a nice picture of one thing their truck could do - refuse collection but they appear to have forgotten recycling which may need side loading. There are a number of applications for a rigid that it could meet. Prime movers as they are called use entirely different power levels to cope with heavier drawn loads.

The UK's aim seems to be to put most of the load of greening onto the public. We would be paying for what ever they did anyway Say update the entire grid so that EV's can easily be charged and houses heated without insulation and we would still be paying for it. If electric prime movers aren't feasible the diesel ones will remain or some one will have to come up with another way of moving stuff around. Rail used to be more popular than it is now and canals even before that. What ever needs power.

 

[Andydevon]

The hydrogen equation has more to do with energy storage from renewables than our limited current view.

 

[jeds]

The average HGV does 2500 miles per week, or 500 miles per day.

10 hours a day at average 50mph - every day. Are hgv drivers allowed that much on the taco?

 

[ajohn]

10 hours a day at average 50mph - every day. Are hgv drivers allowed that much on the taco?

They have to take breaks and longer haul tractors have beds in the back of the cabs along with heating.

Driving is defined as being at the controls of a vehicle for the purposes of controlling its movement, whether it is moving or stationary with the engine running, even for a short period of time.


Daily driving

In any working day the maximum amount of driving permitted is 10 hours. The daily driving limit applies to driving on and off the public road. Off-road driving for the purposes of agriculture, quarrying, forestry, building work or civil engineering counts as duty rather than driving time.


Day: The day is the 24-hour period beginning with the start of duty time.


Daily duty

In any working day the maximum amount of duty permitted is 11 hours. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit (11 hours) on any working day when they do not drive.


A driver who does not drive for more than 4 hours on each day of the week is exempt from the daily duty limit for the whole week.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/2-great-britain-domestic-rules
Best of luck getting to grips with all of that. And that is the UK - I think

 

[ajohn]

Actually but don't quote me if the rest is long enough it's not as simple as the above.