They Shoot Horses, don't they?

[Vinty]

Or are they simply putting a beloved pet/friend/family member out of their misery humanely?

You can't compare humans to animals.
Or maybe you believe that humans should be treated like animals.
If someone requests help to kill themselves , they are committing suicide with the assistance of another person.

If someone wants to kill themselves , that's their choice.
However this legislation will lead to people being being coerced when they are most vulnerable.

 

[motorbiking]

They had a few on R4 yesterday discussing it. I can't believe I am saying it, but once you decipher what Dianne Abbott was trying to say, she made sense. They also had a doctor that said, today deep sedation was legal as palliative care. In effect, putting the dying person into a coma until they finish dying.

For me, the process proposed is wrong.
6 - months to live - her position was - if you genuinely have 6 months, you wont have enough time to apply and get authority to proceed in a meaningful timeframe.
A high court Family Judge has no expertise to challenge the Doctors, so it will be a rubber stamping process.
It will create a package of private GPs specialising in the conveyancing of Death.
There is still no ability for anyone to assist you.

So..

Today a Hospice Doctor has the authority on discussion with the patient, to administer drugs that sedate the person. The rule is, do not hasten or postpone death. A person who is not given water, or food, under sedation, will die within 48-72 hours. One Doctor decides, based on one discussion.

The proposed law, seems to be a hybrid of abortion law and divorce law.
- It doesn't give the person the chance to go before the illness strips them from everything including their mind (e.g. metastatic cancer or MND)
- It means the terminal ill person is wasting the last few good months of their life being interviewed by doctors and paying lawyers/doctors to file their divorce from life application.

I also don't think the NHS should have anything to do with it.

 

[blup]

Its not pleasant watching someone take up to 72 hours to die, but that final stage is ended by the strong sedative that effectively and eventually stops the heart. The bureaucracy and safeguards of the legislation make assisted dying impossible at that point so the lawmakers think 6 months is enough. It might be if there are no legal challenges but upset relatives might challenge if they suspect undue influence. Lasting powers of attorney in cases where there is no capacity e.g. combined dementia and cancer, mean the initial decision can be taken out of the dying persons hands.

 

[blup]

assisted dying is not suicide, please avoid emotive language.

No-one under this bill will be 'killing themselves...

Already the language has been changed. It is suicide whether you like that term or not. The fact that it involves doctors, lawyers, a high court judge, and nhs policies, procedures and tick box forms is neither here nor there.

 

[blup]

I can't believe I am saying it

Neither can Dianne

 

[motorbiking]

If you are going to do this and give the person a real choice it should be at least 12 months.

I knew people given “years” who died weeks later.

 

[denso13]

Today a Hospice Doctor has the authority on discussion with the patient, to administer drugs that sedate the person. The rule is, do not hasten or postpone death.

Not my experience, on two occasions. There were no discussions with the patient, and they forecast exactly when death would occur. They new exactly what they were doing. No complaints by the way.

 

[ellal]

You can't compare humans to animals.

Humans are animals...

But you are right that comparing what we are and what we call animals is true...

Humans can express their wishes, whilst animals can't!

If someone wants to kill themselves , that's their choice.
However this legislation will lead to people being being coerced when they are most vulnerable.

And you believe that people will be 'coerced' when they are at their 'most vulnerable'?

How many?

They are after all going to die in a short period of time, so in real terms what do you think someone would have to gain by 'coercing' another person to decide to avoid an undignified and painful death?

 

[ellal]

Already the language has been changed. It is suicide whether you like that term or not. The fact that it involves doctors, lawyers, a high court judge, and nhs policies, procedures and tick box forms is neither here nor there.

I hope none of your friends or family have to endure a lingering painful death...

But if they do, you should be forced to sit by their bedside day in, day out...

Because since you believe in forcing them to go through hell, you should be forced to witness it...

And if you believe it is 'suicide', then by labeling a choice as such then you are bereft of compassion!

 

[motorbiking]

Not my experience, on two occasions. There were no discussions with the patient, and they forecast exactly when death would occur. They new exactly what they were doing. No complaints by the way.

My experience was not dissimilar, my relative was still lucid when they arrived at the hospice. But the cancer had got into their brain and they only had 2 days left as it turned out. Cannot fault the care of the hospice, absolutely experts in their “craft”. Changed my view of assisted dying.

 

[blup]

I hope none of your friends or family have to endure a lingering painful death...

Pretty much every one has had that experience.

But if they do, you should be forced to sit by their bedside day in, day out...

Thats what happens when you are losing a loved one.

Because since you believe in forcing them to go through hell, you should be forced to witness it...

I think I read you thought covid was a conspiracy, but what you describe above could well have been the result of no lockdown.

And if you believe it is 'suicide', then by labeling a choice as such then you are bereft of compassion!

Its not a belief, its the plain meaning of the word, whether you are for, or against, or not convinced the bill is workable. The process of relatives, the nhs, lawyers, judges, maybe also the court of protection and tne police, could make tne dying experience infinitely more distressing for the patient and their family.

You have have swallowed the government line that the legislation offers an easy fix.

 

[denso13]

You have have swallowed the government line that the legislation offers an easy fix.

Did anyone claim it was an easy fix? I think that is pushing it a bit.

I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy solution, but a step along the way to something better.

 

[transam]

I never knew that this Kim leadbeater was joe coxs sister

( until this morning )

 

[blup]

a step along the way to something better.

Politicians like to be associated with change, it gives them a footnote in history instead becoming forgotten.

The something better can only mean making it more easily available, earlier, and to a wider group of people. on demand. A tick box exercise.

 

[denso13]

The something better can only mean making it more easily available, earlier, and to a wider group of people. on demand.

What if the "something better" addressed your concerns? Would that not be better?